Using cycle paths

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reohn2
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by reohn2 »

ukdodger wrote:Understandable but everybody cant be catered for and as I said these barriers arent only for the benefit of cyclists.


Then why exclude some cyclists,not to mention disabled people in wheelchairs and elec buggies,mothers with prams,etc.

The problem isn't being sorted,where motorcycles are being used illegally they need to be stopped,there used to be this body of people called a police force..... :?
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ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

reohn2 wrote:
ukdodger wrote:Understandable but everybody cant be catered for and as I said these barriers arent only for the benefit of cyclists.


Then why exclude some cyclists,not to mention disabled people in wheelchairs and elec buggies,mothers with prams,etc.

The problem isn't being sorted,where motorcycles are being used illegally they need to be stopped,there used to be this body of people called a police force..... :?


But would they be happier with M/Cs charging by then. Someone somewhere must have done their homework on this issue and as I've said everyone cant be pleased. The police are not going to police these paths. Pigs will fly first.
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Tigerbiten »

ukdodger wrote:I've always had double panniers. I take them off and put them on either side of the barrier. If I was going to use a trike or recumbent or pull a trailer I'd use another route.

And then you get shouted at "Why aren't you on the cycle path" ......... :lol: :roll: :twisted: :lol:
Postboxer
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Postboxer »

Just licence a volunteer with a nice fast motorbike to 'police' it, maybe use some kind of motorbike detection system/CCTV once there is a problem path, to alert them.
broadway
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by broadway »

ukdodger wrote:Someone somewhere must have done their homework on this issue and as I've said everyone cant be pleased.


Why do you assume this?

The number of stupid barriers in this thread would suggest otherwise.
grani
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by grani »

ukdodger wrote:Understandable but everybody cant be catered for and as I said these barriers arent only for the benefit of cyclists.


I understand your point of view but from a livability point of view it is a rubbish attitude. There is no way that these barriers prevent motorbikes as I have come across plenty on those paths.

There are too many things like this in Britain where the standard of living is seriously affected by some peculiar fantasy of preventing anti social behaviour.
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mjr
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by mjr »

ukdodger wrote:Am I just lucky or have all of the barriers I've been through not been those you've been through. I mean how hard is it to get a bike past one. Or is it that what you're really saying is that anything at all that gets in your way is all wrong and shouldnt be allowed.

No, that's not what I'm saying, although if we want to encourage cycling, it probably shouldn't be made more dangerous than necessary.

Have you really never been through any barriers like the pictures posted above? Or these evil things which I was just writing about:
Image

How hard are they? Well, I think the narrowest gap at handlebar height I've measured is 620mm - if any are accidentally left slightly wider at 675mm, then even a Honda Goldwing can get through! If the barriers are set to DfT's recommended width (1.2m in LTN2/08 - the more recent LTN1/12 flatly discourages them) or Sustrans's (1.5m in their latest guide), then most motorcycles wouldn't even need to stop. So, one more time, how can any of these barriers logically ever stop motorcycle access?

Anyway, the most common width of bike flat handlebars is 600mm. Not much scope for wobbling and still fitting through a 620mm gap, but I think you'd make it 99 times out of 100... but if these are on your commuting route, 50 weeks working 5 days, 99% success would mean 5 crashes a year, assuming you don't injure yourself or damage the bike too badly to ride. What would happen if roads were designed so typical driving commuters will each suffer 5 car crashes a year?
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gaz
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by gaz »

Apologies to those of you who have seen it before ... To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee: That's not a barrier, this is a barrier...
Image
There are four of these on 0.5 miles of path which has the extremely rare distinction of being one that Sustrans relinquished. There are still some of the same style on a section of NCN1 in Bexley.
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Mick F
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Mick F »

I rode south though Manchester some few years ago, and wasn't allowed to cycle on the A5103 so had to use the cycle path/pedestrian path.

I was towing a trailer, and couldn't get through some of the bollards without stopping and lifting the trailer through.
VERY annoyed!
I'd have been happier on the main road!
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Vorpal »

ukdodger wrote:How do you know they do nothing to prevent M/C's? Sure they can make access another way but at what cost to them. It's not a brick wall it's a deterrent. I dont know the criteria for installing these barriers but no doubt they've taken the needs of all possible users into account. You dont see them on all paths. Maybe some paths arent accessible anyway for mobility aids etc. I cycle a lot in the Surrey hills where there are no barriers and at least one path is used (legally I might add) by scramble bikes. Next time you're this way I'll take you for a ride along it. You can experience for yourself several racing scrambling bikes coming past at speed and is that what you want for mobility aids & child trailers?

Okay. I don't know that they do *nothing*. What I do know is that Flitch Way is all but barricaded with the things on the Braintree to Rayne section, but it still has a problem with illegal motorcycling. I cannot get my trailer onto most sections of the track. Many wheel chair users and most mobility scooters cannot get onto it. Many trikes cannot get onto it. Bikes with wide handlebars cannot get onto it. But illegal motorcyclists can. It happens EVEN WITH THE BARRIERS IN PLACE.

Give young motorcyclists an appropriate place to ride. Give them space to ride legally. Then use the law to keep them off the paths. Police have the power to confiscate and crush illegally ridden motorbikes. Most of the illegal motorcycling is done by the same, small number of offenders. But the police won't provide the resources to do the detective work to find them and confiscate their bikes, or charge the offenders.

Instead, the powers that be put those crappy barriers up so that legitimate users are effectively banned, then tell everyone that they've done what they can. Grrrr. I *hate* those things. They are a plague on the best cycle tracks in Britain.

I say again: Illegal motorcycling is a social and legal issue. NOT AN ACCESS ISSUE.
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Mistik-ka »

Well said, Vorpal.
mercalia
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by mercalia »

trouble with many cycle paths is that they arent flat. I dont understand how they can get roads flat but not cycle paths. During the summer the authorities were resurfacing parts of the NCN 1 between Dartford and Gravesend. They were using those roller devices and the result was.. not flat but bumpy. very strange. It wasnt as if they were cheapskaping as there were quite a few workmen there
Last edited by mercalia on 24 Nov 2014, 10:04pm, edited 2 times in total.
ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

Vorpal wrote:
ukdodger wrote:How do you know they do nothing to prevent M/C's? Sure they can make access another way but at what cost to them. It's not a brick wall it's a deterrent. I dont know the criteria for installing these barriers but no doubt they've taken the needs of all possible users into account. You dont see them on all paths. Maybe some paths arent accessible anyway for mobility aids etc. I cycle a lot in the Surrey hills where there are no barriers and at least one path is used (legally I might add) by scramble bikes. Next time you're this way I'll take you for a ride along it. You can experience for yourself several racing scrambling bikes coming past at speed and is that what you want for mobility aids & child trailers?

Okay. I don't know that they do *nothing*. What I do know is that Flitch Way is all but barricaded with the things on the Braintree to Rayne section, but it still has a problem with illegal motorcycling. I cannot get my trailer onto most sections of the track. Many wheel chair users and most mobility scooters cannot get onto it. Many trikes cannot get onto it. Bikes with wide handlebars cannot get onto it. But illegal motorcyclists can. It happens EVEN WITH THE BARRIERS IN PLACE.

Give young motorcyclists an appropriate place to ride. Give them space to ride legally. Then use the law to keep them off the paths. Police have the power to confiscate and crush illegally ridden motorbikes. Most of the illegal motorcycling is done by the same, small number of offenders. But the police won't provide the resources to do the detective work to find them and confiscate their bikes, or charge the offenders.

Instead, the powers that be put those crappy barriers up so that legitimate users are effectively banned, then tell everyone that they've done what they can. Grrrr. I *hate* those things. They are a plague on the best cycle tracks in Britain.

I say again: Illegal motorcycling is a social and legal issue. NOT AN ACCESS ISSUE.


So how many motorcycles have you ever come across?

Are you really speaking up for those who these barriers supposedly keep out or is that your own (and others here) annoyance of them leads you to believe that all users must obviously feel the same way. What about other path users who also dont want M/C's causing them an inconvenience. I seriously doubt walkers have any problem at all with them and they may indeed welcome them because they think they keep us out too. You'd have to be one brick short of a pile to take a mobility scooter on the C2C and much of it is impossible to get a trike over even without barriers.

Frankly if you think that allocating space for motorcyclists to play nicely somewhere else will stop illegal entry onto these paths you've more faith in human nature than I have. Skateboard parks did nothing to stop skateboarders doing it where they please and youth clubs never did stop kids collecting on street corners. Part of the fun is doing because you arent supposed too. The idea that the police are going to arrive and trash some riders M/C is fanciful. It would cost far too much to police these paths that way and yes maybe it is a sticking plaster rather than a solution but I say again everybody cant be catered for and it's better than nothing.
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mjr
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by mjr »

Yes, walkers probably do welcome the barriers. If they're tight enough to keep motorbikes out, they keep most cycles out, and cycling budget has been stolen to build a footpath which a few bikes will be lifted onto.

We can cater for everyone and should. I wonder how these barriers sit with various accessibility laws.
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snibgo
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by snibgo »

mjr wrote:What would happen if roads were designed so typical driving commuters will each suffer 5 car crashes a year?

Yes.

It seems obvious that roads are designed, built and maintained to not cause crashes, that motorists don't need to get out and push, or lift their vehicles over obstructions.

We seem incapable of applying the same obvious principles to cycle paths.
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