Using cycle paths

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Flinders
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Flinders »

I find it difficult to get through some of the barriers here. I certainly can't ride through them. I have to stop and wiggle my bike through or I'd catch the cranks on the darned things. I might just be able to do it if I used them every day and had a lot of practice, but the surface you're riding on is uneven and a rut develops where tyres go through.
I came across a child with a disability on a special bike on one of the local paths- I doubt he'd have got through some of the barriers; I suppose he just has to get on and off where the barriers are better designed.
It doesn't stop motor scooters anyway, I've even seen them racing on there, so I don't see the point.
Postboxer
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Postboxer »

Some barriers are likely to put people off from using a cycle path, as some give the impression that cycling isn't allowed, signs can't always be believed and aren't always there.
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Tigerbiten »

Now you know why I call them "Anti-cycling barriers".
I think most are there to make cycling harder, not to improve your safety.
I'd keep the odd one.
Like at the bottom of a steep bit of track just before a road to stop kids bombing down the slope and straight onto the road.
But I think most can be replaced by just a post or a pair of post as that's enough to keep cars off a track.
Which is all you basically need.
ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

Bicycler wrote:
ukdodger wrote:Or scramble bikes upsetting their daily walks. What makes you think other path users dont welcome these measures as well?

I was including them with locals. The point I make is that this is one of those convenient excuses commonly trotted out when people don't want cyclists to have access to places.

Again, I'll suggest that if these are to be used they ought to be a retrospective measure, a solution to an actual problem in the few places where there is one, not used routinely on many cycle paths because someone might use a motorbike on there.

I have been passed by a motorcycle (a scooter) on a cycle path once this decade and that was on a path with the silly barriers. The kids on the bike didn't cause any problems so I wasn't fussed. Certainly less fussed than I was by one particular barrier at one end of the path. In order to be worth the nuisance they cause these things would have to be stopping frequent use of the path by nuisance motorbikers who would otherwise use the path and I just don't think that applies in the majority of cases.


I cant see why walkers and such wouldnt want cyclists but have no objection to motorcyclists. That doesnt make sense.

Without the barriers why wouldnt you have had many more pass you?
ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

I think we should stop moaning about genuine attempts to help cyclists and all users of the paths.
profpointy
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by profpointy »

ukdodger wrote:I think we should stop moaning about genuine attempts to help cyclists and all users of the paths.


whilst I see your point, given many, perhaps most, cycle facilities make cycling more dangerous and less pleasant, AND encourage (some) drivers to be more abusive and aggressive to us if we deign not to use them, I'm afraid I am with the moaners on this one. Whilst the attempt may be genuine, if it makes things worse I'd far rather nothing was done, and the moneys used more wisely - and spending it on fine wines for the councillors would be a better use of the money in many cases unfortunately y.
ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

profpointy wrote:
ukdodger wrote:I think we should stop moaning about genuine attempts to help cyclists and all users of the paths.


whilst I see your point, given many, perhaps most, cycle facilities make cycling more dangerous and less pleasant, AND encourage (some) drivers to be more abusive and aggressive to us if we deign not to use them, I'm afraid I am with the moaners on this one. Whilst the attempt may be genuine, if it makes things worse I'd far rather nothing was done, and the moneys used more wisely - and spending it on fine wines for the councillors would be a better use of the money in many cases unfortunately y.


But how do we know it's made things worse for us? I've cycled the C2C three times and never saw a single M/C. I had no problems whatever with the barriers and saw them only as a help not a hindrance.
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Mick F
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Mick F »

I don't see that genuine attempts to make things better are wrong, just that mainly they are ill-advised and badly implemented through ignorance of the designers. Perhaps money comes into the equation, and perhaps other road users need better education.
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mjr
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by mjr »

ukdodger wrote:But how do we know it's made things worse for us? I've cycled the C2C three times and never saw a single M/C. I had no problems whatever with the barriers and saw them only as a help not a hindrance.

Can I sell you some anti-elephant paint? I know it works because I've had no trouble with elephants since applying it to my bike. :twisted:

These barriers do not stop motorcycles but are an awful problem for cycles. They damage bikes and injure riders. For example, I go on day trips with an easy-rider group about every other weekend. It's been between 3 and 30 riders each time, ages from between 14 and well over 70 (I don't remember exactly the oldest I've heard and someone else might be older). The handlebar-height barriers on NCN1 out of Lynn north and south are the most frequent cause of crashes, despite warnings on the approach. I think it's something like one crash every two months... and often it's the experienced riders because it only takes one moment's inattention, or a slight wobble, or a sneeze and one end of the handlebar catches the metalwork, the bike turns one way and the rider spills off the other. Fortunately, because of the warnings, these are usually at low speed, so I'm aware of only one slight injury on group rides in the last 2 years.

The alternative routes are slightly worse (northbound is an uphill drag straight with close overtakes and vehicles turning into/out of car parks that don't look properly; southbound is the former NCN1 through a motorway-style oval roundabout above the dualled A47 and then through an industrial estate busy with HGVs) but it's really annoying that this otherwise-pretty-great cycleway right through the heart of town:
Image
is marred by pointless crash hazards along it. Pointless, because the motorbikes can still get on there anyway, joining from the side accesses which do not have barriers.
ukdodger wrote:I think we should stop moaning about genuine attempts to help cyclists and all users of the paths.

As I wrote earlier, I think most calls for barriers are not "genuine attempts to help". If they are, we need to educate the helpers about why crash barriers logically cannot work and if there's really a problem, then they need to press for action by police, civil enforcement officers, whatever.

But seeing as ukdodger does not accept that these barriers cannot work, what hope is there of that?

@ukdodger - how do those barriers stop motorcycles, then?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

Have no trouble with elephants but the M/C paint works a treat. You should try it. Legislation isnt going to work. It's too expensive to enforce.

Am I just lucky or have all of the barriers I've been through not been those you've been through. I mean how hard is it to get a bike past one. Or is it that what you're really saying is that anything at all that gets in your way is all wrong and shouldnt be allowed.
grani
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by grani »

ukdodger wrote:Have no trouble with elephants but the M/C paint works a treat. You should try it. Legislation isnt going to work. It's too expensive to enforce.

Am I just lucky or have all of the barriers I've been through not been those you've been through. I mean how hard is it to get a bike past one. Or is it that what you're really saying is that anything at all that gets in your way is all wrong and shouldnt be allowed.


My example would simply be that I would like to get a cargo trike instead of a small car for our family. The best routes around here are bike paths along a canal, a converted railway line and a couple of paths into and around some parks. All of them have these barriers and are inaccessible to a cargo trike, any trike or even a bike with trailer. Some barriers do however have Radar key gates that are just about usable.

I fail to see how exactly this is good for anyone and I will never ever support Sustrans as long as they work with anyone who installs these barriers.
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by Tigerbiten »

ukdodger wrote:Am I just lucky or have all of the barriers I've been through not been those you've been through. I mean how hard is it to get a bike past one. Or is it that what you're really saying is that anything at all that gets in your way is all wrong and shouldn't be allowed.

Do you only have a "standard" bike or do you ride something non-standard.

Once you've tried to do it with a fully loaded touring tandem/a recumbent trike/ a bike and trailer, then you will see what type of problems these type of barriers can cause.
ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

grani wrote:
ukdodger wrote:Have no trouble with elephants but the M/C paint works a treat. You should try it. Legislation isnt going to work. It's too expensive to enforce.

Am I just lucky or have all of the barriers I've been through not been those you've been through. I mean how hard is it to get a bike past one. Or is it that what you're really saying is that anything at all that gets in your way is all wrong and shouldnt be allowed.


My example would simply be that I would like to get a cargo trike instead of a small car for our family. The best routes around here are bike paths along a canal, a converted railway line and a couple of paths into and around some parks. All of them have these barriers and are inaccessible to a cargo trike, any trike or even a bike with trailer. Some barriers do however have Radar key gates that are just about usable.

I fail to see how exactly this is good for anyone and I will never ever support Sustrans as long as they work with anyone who installs these barriers.


Understandable but everybody cant be catered for and as I said these barriers arent only for the benefit of cyclists.
ukdodger
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by ukdodger »

Tigerbiten wrote:
ukdodger wrote:Am I just lucky or have all of the barriers I've been through not been those you've been through. I mean how hard is it to get a bike past one. Or is it that what you're really saying is that anything at all that gets in your way is all wrong and shouldn't be allowed.

Do you only have a "standard" bike or do you ride something non-standard.

Once you've tried to do it with a fully loaded touring tandem/a recumbent trike/ a bike and trailer, then you will see what type of problems these type of barriers can cause.


I've always had double panniers. I take them off and put them on either side of the barrier. If I was going to use a trike or recumbent or pull a trailer I'd use another route.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Using cycle paths

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
I ca probably count the number of times I have come off bike in the last 40 years on one hand.
All of which bar two were off road on the moors going down a boulder strewn path at 1/2 a mph and saw it coming as I lay down into a thicket bush :)

Two times in the last two years going off the highway onto forest mud on a mud / gravel layby, the other time way going through a staggered gate at end of path onto the pavement, either my pannier caught the gate or I went onto full lock (full stantion forks with Motorcycle type yoks so its like a petrol tank prevents the steering going past 45 degrees) and touching the brake meant I could not correct with steering, I fancy the staggered gates.
Never on the tarmack since I was 16.
The gates are tight and most do not cycle through they dismount. So blame those pesky barriers :)

Oh I mounted the pavement outside my house and tried a 90 turn but the wheel hit the 2" step and I nearly head butted the concrete post :?
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