The Great British Cyling quiz

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Bicycler »

Vantage wrote:
Bicycler wrote:Being picky...

Practically a requirement of this forum from what I've seen over the years.

My understanding is that the questions covered the 'general idea' of the laws in question, not covering all the ins and outs and loopholes.
The only one I struggled with was that of carrying passengers in that tandems, child seats and additional seating space are all separate answers yet all are correct.

I was being purposely pedantic but there's a serious point. The only purpose for having this kind of thing is to correct people's understanding and that involves having the correct information to hand. Saying things like you must never cycle on pavements without mentioning that there are many places where this is permitted just increases the confusion rather than offering any useful clarification.

It would be quite easy for someone to walk away from that quiz believing that all the cyclists they see on the pavement are riding illegally or that it's okay to pass cyclists closely.
Tonyf33
Posts: 3926
Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Tonyf33 »

More nonsense to use against cycling/cyclists in the future no doubt.
The fact that the majority of the questions and answers are incorrect in one form or another is just reflective of how 'these' people operate.
User avatar
gaz
Posts: 14648
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by gaz »

Bicycler wrote:[mounts hobby horse] Neither "pavement" nor the modern highway jargon "footway" appear in the legislation prohibiting cycling on them. The wording is "any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers" [dismounts hobby horse]


64
You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129


So I hope you didn't mount your hobby horse whilst on the pavement or you could be in trouble :wink: .

Most of the official answers reference the Highway Code, some even reference the CTC.
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Bicycler »

Thanks for the link to the detailed answers, they certainly add some information to the answers in the quiz. It is a shame that they were not included within the quiz. That said, they don't clarify some of the answers which members of this forum have found confusing.

That excerpt from the highway code actually illustrates the point I was making. It states that it is illegal to cycle on pavements without defining the term pavement. The legislation cited to support the statement is the one I quoted above which does not use the term pavement so there is no clear statutory definition. It is marginally more acceptable in the HC than in the quiz because the HC includes a section on cycle tracks in rule 62 where it is made clear that "pavement" is used to mean only those paths for the exclusive use of pedestrians. Motorists relying on the quiz (or the HC rule in isolation) could have reinforced their mistaken view that all the cyclists they see on the paths beside roads are riding illegally
Last edited by Bicycler on 22 Nov 2014, 8:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
gaz
Posts: 14648
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by gaz »

It seems to me that the quiz was written from the point of view that those most likely to take the quiz would be unlikely to have a knoweldge of road traffic law above that gleaned from the Highway Code. Equally it was not intended to educate anyone above the level of knowledge to be gained from studying a handful of entries within the Highway Code.
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
Edwards
Posts: 5982
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 10:09pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Edwards »

I noticed that the web address is that of a solicitors, I think?
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Bicycler »

If something is worth doing it's worth doing well. If their wording can trip up people who know the law no doubt it can confuse those who don't. I also think it would be best for them not to offer sloppy legal advice for free if they want to attract paying clients.

That and I didn't like the rather judgemental way in which some of the answers were worded:
Contrary to popular belief, it is against the law to ride a bike along the pavement (The Highway Code, section 64). While most cyclists will have taken the option on at least one occasion – and it does not seem to be particularly policed – it underlines the importance of pedestrian safety on these walkways.


On top of this, rightly-coloured clothing is also still only a "should", not a must.


While more careless cyclists may give the impression that they are able to take more liberties than other road users, the Highway Code is clear: cyclists must adhere to the exact same rules as everyone else.


BTW I liked this gem:

amber pedal reflectors also need fitting if a bike is manufactured before October 1st, 1985.

Get them fitted Bob!
User avatar
gaz
Posts: 14648
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by gaz »

Bicycler wrote:If something is worth doing it's worth doing well. If their wording can trip up people who know the law no doubt it can confuse those who don't...

By which measure the Highway Code itself falls short.

Hopefully a few of those who got some answers wrong (according to the quizmasters) might look for a bit of further guidance. I'd expect it's more likely that they'll look to refresh their knowledge of the Highway Code than to investigate the minutiae of the Highways Act 1835 or the Road Vehicle Lighting Regualtions 1989 and it's subsequent amendments. With a bit of luck by the time they've found the sections relevant to the answers they will have refreshed their knowledge in other areas along the way.

Bicycler wrote:BTW I liked this gem:

amber pedal reflectors also need fitting if a bike is manufactured before October 1st, 1985.

Yes, that is without doubt a bit of a howler.
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
User avatar
NUKe
Posts: 4161
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 11:07pm
Location: Suffolk

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by NUKe »

100 % first time.
NUKe
_____________________________________
Edwards
Posts: 5982
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 10:09pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Edwards »

Bicycler wrote:If something is worth doing it's worth doing well. If their wording can trip up people who know the law no doubt it can confuse those who don't. I also think it would be best for them not to offer sloppy legal advice for free if they want to attract paying clients.


They managed to catch out a few cyclists who think they know the law about ASL. First you must cross the stop line to get to the Advanced stop line.
The exact legal entry point was not asked for.

This quiz highlights why we are better off with proper legal representation when things end up in court. In law the exact wording is every thing an it is easy o trip people up.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by TonyR »

grani wrote:
Mick F wrote:Only got one wrong, but I don't agree with the "correct" answer.
Riding on the pavement.
Their "correct" answer is NEVER.

I said local by-laws can permit it.

Same here.


As a smug 100%er I'm afraid they are right. Any conversion to a shared use facility is through the Cycle Tracks legislation that changes its legal status from a pavement or "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians" on which it is illegal to ride a bicycle to a cycle track on which it is legal. It's not by a local bylaw waiver of national legislation that makes it illegal to cycle on the pavement.

Ditto about the other ones which people are complaining are wrong.
rfryer
Posts: 809
Joined: 7 Feb 2013, 3:58pm

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by rfryer »

TonyR wrote:As a smug 100%er I'm afraid they are right. Any conversion to a shared use facility is through the Cycle Tracks legislation that changes its legal status from a pavement or "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians" on which it is illegal to ride a bicycle to a cycle track on which it is legal. It's not by a local bylaw waiver of national legislation that makes it illegal to cycle on the pavement.

Ditto about the other ones which people are complaining are wrong.

While you're quoting legislation, can you quote the bit that defines an equivalance between the term "pavement" and "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians"?

Thanks!
Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Bicycler »

TonyR wrote:As a smug 100%er I'm afraid they are right. Any conversion to a shared use facility is through the Cycle Tracks legislation that changes its legal status from a pavement or "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians" on which it is illegal to ride a bicycle to a cycle track on which it is legal. It's not by a local bylaw waiver of national legislation that makes it illegal to cycle on the pavement.


Again (being equally smug) I posted above that the legislation prohibiting cycling on them uses the words " any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers". It is far from clear that "footpath or causeway" and "footway" mean exactly the same thing as "pavement". Personally I tend to view a pavement as the physically constructed path next to the carriageway regardless of whether bicycles are permitted on it. A proper segregated cycle path separated from the pedestrian path would be different but a bit of paint and blue signs doesn't stop me from thinking it a pavement. Many other people will think the same, so to include that statement without clarification is confusing. I would welcome the clarification Richard seeks.

BTW, you are wrong about the Cycle Tracks Act which is used for footpaths away from roads. The relevant legislation for those on roads is the Highways Act 1980. S. 66(4) allows the removal of the pedestrian "footway" (no mention of "pavement") and S.65(1) allows the creation of a cycle track.

Ditto about the other ones which people are complaining are wrong


Can I have the legislation permitting cyclists to cross normal stop lines on red lights to access ASLs and the requirement for pedal reflectors to be retro-fitted to bicycles built before 1985?
User avatar
gaz
Posts: 14648
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by gaz »

rfryer wrote:While you're quoting legislation, can you quote the bit that defines an equivalance between the term "pavement" and "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians"?


QED
Road Traffic Act 1988, Section 38 (7) recognises the Highway Code in civil and criminal proceedings. Rule 64 of the Highway Code establishes the equivalence between "pavement" and "footway alongside the carriageway set apart for the use of pedestrians".

Bicycler wrote:Can I have the legislation permitting cyclists to cross normal stop lines on red lights to access ASLs and the requirement for pedal reflectors to be retro-fitted to bicycles built before 1985?


Not from me :lol: .
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: The Great British Cyling quiz

Post by Mick F »

Bicycler wrote: ......... Personally I tend to view a pavement as the physically constructed path next to the carriageway regardless of whether bicycles are permitted on it.
Exactly.

Definition of "pavement".
Screen shot 2014-11-23 at 12.10.40.png
Mick F. Cornwall
Post Reply