Motorcyclist encounters obstructive motorist (YouTube)

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thirdcrank
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by thirdcrank »

We hear a fair bit about the Highway Code in cases like this, especially from people who think that advice not to do something creates a sort of mirror right for them to assume that "the other driver" must comply. In reality, the HC tends to concentrate on creating responsibilities rather than rights. Anyway, here's a bit of HC advice that's relevant here, (edited to remove a couple of lines which don't apply to this incident.)

147
Be considerate. Be careful of and considerate towards all types of road users, especially those requiring extra care (see Rule 204).
...
try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well.
be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake.
do not allow yourself to become agitated or involved if someone is behaving badly on the road. This will only make the situation worse. Pull over, calm down and, when you feel relaxed, continue your journey.
....


My own basic point would be that it's not the role of any road user to try to enforce their own interpretation of road traffic law (which may well be wrong, anyway.) As cyclists, we tend to be on the receiving end of this all the time, and some seem to respond by trying to dish it out. It's obviously wrong for a road user deliberately to obstruct another, as it's suggested the oncoming driver did here, but that doesn't justify behaving badly in response. I know that this is easy advice to give and hard to follow, especially when the fear of injury turns to anger. However, if you are going to release a movie about it, it's worth following, IMO.

I've watched the approach of the car several times - no choice when watching the edited vid - and my impression is that the driver appears to be overtaking or making a similar manoeuvre, but it then looks as though there's nothing to overtake but clear space. ie support for the suggestion it was a deliberate attempt to baulk the motorcyclist but hardly conclusive.

As this is a cycling forum and an increasing number of cyclists use cameras to gather evidence (even if they find difficulty getting a decent police response) footage like this wouldn't help a prosecution. If the elusive independent witnesses were ever traced, they'd remember the aftermath and probably not what led up to it.
Bonefishblues
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by Bonefishblues »

It might be of interest to take a look at the biker's Youtube channel - BikersPOV.

Links from the original Youtube page.
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661-Pete
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by 661-Pete »

Bonefishblues wrote:It might be of interest to take a look at the biker's Youtube channel - BikersPOV.

Links from the original Youtube page.

Yep. Laced throughout with plenty more of the 'Anglo-Saxon'. I suppose we all lapse now and again, but to this extent? Perhaps I should revise my previous post... :? I doubt if 'Seikenbiker' will be back...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Si
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by Si »

SeikenBiker wrote:However what do you think should be done? Just letting her on her way thinking she made the right thing and carry on feeling like she is the citizen of the year? Do you think THAT will help other vulnerable road users? Maybe if she sees herself on YT and reads some of the comments she will think twice (and people like her who will watch it) before she decides to pull that off on another vulnerable road user? She will not change her mind (no matter what) but maybe she will be a little more worried about the consequences.
That is how I think about it.


Perhaps if one were to stop and talk calmly to her (yes, I know that this is easier on a proper bike than on a motor bike :wink: ) one may have more chance of converting her? Just like you were talking calmly throughout the start of the video - ask her in a polite manor what she hoped to gain from causing you hassle and how she thought you were harming her in any way. You may well get a load of abuse back but that will just demonstrate that she realises that she is in an untenable position and she will, hopefully, reflect on the error of her ways later. Like others, I fear that no matter how justified you might be in hurling abuse at her, the outcome is likely to be that it just reinforces her own perceptions of motorcyclists. Having said that, I realise that in the heat of the moment it can be difficult to stay calm, we've all been there, and we've all been driven to venting our feelings most forcefully.
Bonefishblues
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by Bonefishblues »

Si wrote:
SeikenBiker wrote:However what do you think should be done? Just letting her on her way thinking she made the right thing and carry on feeling like she is the citizen of the year? Do you think THAT will help other vulnerable road users? Maybe if she sees herself on YT and reads some of the comments she will think twice (and people like her who will watch it) before she decides to pull that off on another vulnerable road user? She will not change her mind (no matter what) but maybe she will be a little more worried about the consequences.
That is how I think about it.


Perhaps if one were to stop and talk calmly to her (yes, I know that this is easier on a proper bike than on a motor bike :wink: ) one may have more chance of converting her? Just like you were talking calmly throughout the start of the video - ask her in a polite manor what she hoped to gain from causing you hassle and how she thought you were harming her in any way. You may well get a load of abuse back but that will just demonstrate that she realises that she is in an untenable position and she will, hopefully, reflect on the error of her ways later. Like others, I fear that no matter how justified you might be in hurling abuse at her, the outcome is likely to be that it just reinforces her own perceptions of motorcyclists. Having said that, I realise that in the heat of the moment it can be difficult to stay calm, we've all been there, and we've all been driven to venting our feelings most forcefully.

I'd suggest, based on what he chooses to publish on his Youtube Channel that the chances of that approach being taken are being rather low.
reohn2
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by reohn2 »

661-Pete wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:It might be of interest to take a look at the biker's Youtube channel - BikersPOV.

Links from the original Youtube page.

Yep. Laced throughout with plenty more of the 'Anglo-Saxon'. I suppose we all lapse now and again, but to this extent? Perhaps I should revise my previous post... :? I doubt if 'Seikenbiker' will be back...


TBH you live a very sheltered life if you think his AS is unusual,that level of swearing is every day usage a for good percentage of the general public.
As for his riding style,it's fairly cautious,with one or two completely risky manoeuvres,but compared to some other cyclists and m/cyclists his risk levels are small.
Some of the manoeuvres by other road users in the videos I find extremely stupid and very alarming.
What always amazes me, from my own experience and watching the videos,are the levels of risk people are prepared to take to save a few seconds.
Last edited by reohn2 on 15 Nov 2014, 11:00am, edited 1 time in total.
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reohn2
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by reohn2 »

Si wrote:Perhaps if one were to stop and talk calmly to her (yes, I know that this is easier on a proper bike than on a motor bike :wink: ) one may have more chance of converting her? Just like you were talking calmly throughout the start of the video - ask her in a polite manor what she hoped to gain from causing you hassle and how she thought you were harming her in any way. You may well get a load of abuse back but that will just demonstrate that she realises that she is in an untenable position and she will, hopefully, reflect on the error of her ways later. Like others, I fear that no matter how justified you might be in hurling abuse at her, the outcome is likely to be that it just reinforces her own perceptions of motorcyclists. Having said that, I realise that in the heat of the moment it can be difficult to stay calm, we've all been there, and we've all been driven to venting our feelings most forcefully.


I agree,though I find generally I get a better response when my approach is calm, TBH it's sometimes very hard to remain calm especially when life and limb are threatened by some stupid moron in a car/truck/bus,etc.
An incident I vividly remember on the tandem being squeezed into a high curb by a bus,TBH it was so close if I'd been solo I'd have bailed out and dived for the pavement,but couldn't guarantee Mrs R2 would have followed me.
Anyway the front doors of the bus were inches from use and I began banging on them.
Thankfully the bus stopped and the driver opened them.I said ''what do you think you doing,you can see us can't you?
His reply was ''well I didn't touch you did I?'' at which point I completely lost it,Anglo Saxon utterances in front my females and my wife and family particularly,is usually taboo, but this occasion it was an exception and I screamed abuse at the driver whilst getting on the bus,more at his completely stupid and moronic response.My top blown,I then turned to the passengers and apologised.
We had to stop afterwards whilst I and Mrs R2 calmed dow.
Mrs R2 later said she was more concerned what I was about to do to the driver than the actual incident itself or my exceptional language.
As I say,when life and limb is threatened reason sometimes goes out the window.
If only we could put ourselves in other peoples shoes we'd know the difference our effect on them,and non more so than protected belted up motorists compared to vulnerable unprotected road users.
Such incidents as the video in the OP and absolute shed load of others I could relate are life threatening and completely needless IMHO.
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661-Pete
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by 661-Pete »

reohn2 wrote:TBH you live a very sheltered life if you think his AS is unusual,that level of swearing is every day usage a for good percentage of the general public.
Sheltered life? Moi?? Ah well, perhaps I have, in some respects, but speaking as one who's been referred to (on another internet forum - yeah by other cyclists, not by petrolheads) as "PETE IS A SINISTER CREEPY ****" (I can't expand the "****" {{ Graham agrees! }} ) - well, I could say "I've seen it all". :|

And yes I suppose I do give vent on frequent occasions. We all have our 'short-fuse' moments, maybe I have more than some people. And I've had a fair bit thrown at me. Haven't we all?

The big difference, to me, the way in which this guy exhibits monumental hubris, is in putting his utterances on-line, making it hard-copy, in effect. Whether it's done in a video or by written word, it then becomes something other people can copy. I personally would be careful, if I knew I was on camera - whether my own or someone else's.

Yes I know there are plenty other examples on the 'tube already. Maybe it's too late to turn back the tide. So much for the beauty of our language!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
reohn2
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by reohn2 »

Pete
If my life was on camera I'd be extremely embarrassed by some of my behaviour,and so would the vast majority of other people IMHO.
Anyone who puts their lives on Youtube stands naked for all to see,sometimes they're right sometimes wrong.
In this particular case(the OP video) SeikenBiker is guilty of venting(wrongly IMO) but 20/20 hindsight's an incredible view!
I hope we can all learn something :wink: .
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bazzo
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by bazzo »

I occasionally have to deliver new vehicles to London, I sit in traffic with scooters, motorcycle and cyclists passing on either side of the vehicle. Most of the scooters and motorcyclists are passing very close and at speeds which are excessive for the traffic conditions. I am quite convinced that should they impact my vehicle, most likely the wing mirror, they would not stop and I would be unlikely to be able to get their registration details.

This must be a common occurrence.
Bonefishblues
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by Bonefishblues »

reohn2 wrote:Pete
If my life was on camera I'd be extremely embarrassed by some of my behaviour,and so would the vast majority of other people IMHO.
Anyone who puts their lives on Youtube stands naked for all to see,sometimes they're right sometimes wrong.
In this particular case(the OP video) SeikenBiker is guilty of venting(wrongly IMO) but 20/20 hindsight's an incredible view!
I hope we can all learn something :wink: .

I agree, but would comment that hindsight must surely have had time to take effect before one posts (consistently, having viewed a number of his clips) on a Youtube Channel?
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661-Pete
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by 661-Pete »

Bonefishblues wrote:I agree, but would comment that hindsight must surely have had time to take effect before one posts (consistently, having viewed a number of his clips) on a Youtube Channel?

That's my point. I may lapse into bad language, but I'm not proud of the fact... :oops:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
mike_dowler
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by mike_dowler »

I am interested in the assertion that motorcyclists have the right to filter. Does this have any basis in eg the HC? I appreciate the argument that it makes a (small) reduction in the length of the queue, but cannot see why it should be necessary. After all motorbikes are perfectly able to keep up with the traffic flow when it is moving; why should they not also wait there turn when the traffic is stopped?

The situation is rather different for cyclists since (a) most of us cannot keep up with freely flowing traffic, (b) the HC encourages cats to overtake (or at least assumes that they will), and (c) facilities are usually directed at providing a specific route for filtering. I starting thinking about this in the recent discussion about ASLs, which I am often forced to share with motorbikes.
reohn2
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by reohn2 »

661-Pete wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I agree, but would comment that hindsight must surely have had time to take effect before one posts (consistently, having viewed a number of his clips) on a Youtube Channel?

That's my point. I may lapse into bad language, but I'm not proud of the fact... :oops:


My point was that we aren't all alike and that some people view a bad deed worse than 'bad' language.
Though I do agree that using bad language in response to a bad deed can be counter productive,sometimes the red mist descends.
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snibgo
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Re: The Calm Before The Storm

Post by snibgo »

mike_dowler wrote:I am interested in the assertion that motorcyclists have the right to filter.

Any road user has the general right to overtake any other road user. The HC and the inderlying Acts don't normally give rights, but prohibitions.

mike_dowler wrote:... the HC encourages cats to overtake ...

I often have problems with dogs overtaking me then trying to bite my wheels. Never any problem with cats.
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