Motorcyclist encounters obstructive motorist (YouTube)

[reohn2]

Beardy
Oh, without doubt the Fiat has every right to to drive right upto the white line if they so desire and can't wait to demonstrate it.
And I agree it is a grey area,but when there's no need for it,it's nothing but nastiness,which does seem to be a trait of a significant number UK drivers.
It's their righteousness in such situations that cause unnecessary aggravation and tension,because they are so,so,right and so eager to demonstrate it,it's no more than might is right only in this instance the law is on their side too and don't they just love it!.
What I'm trying to say is that it wouldn't have cost the Fiat driver anything at all to give the motorcyclist room to pass,white line or not, instead of squeezing him in her righteousness.
I see it all the time when cycling and it's a very bad side of UK driving attitude and also one reason I wouldn't trust another road user one bit.
I see each one as a psychopathic lunatic out to do me harm that shouldn't be the healthy option but unfortunately it is.
If we all took a courtesy course UK roads would be a better place for all!

[reohn2]

....... Since going back to motor bikes last year I've been surprised by the amount of car drivers who purposely move to the left for me to filter through, I just hope they don't stray into the cycle lane if there's a cyclist there ......

I find the same when I'm filtering on the right whilst cycling,but don't get lulled into any kind of false confidence in them.
I've also experienced the opposite and very,very,occasionally on the last second or two,deliberately.

[Vantage]

I was going to argue some of the posts here but I think reohn2 covered my own thoughts perfectly, however, I'll add one.
There are statements that the driver did no wrong as he/she had every right to occupy their space and indeed this is true. It doesn't seem to bother some the driver had the inability to show a little goodwill to move over a bit and let the biker through. Interesting.
I've trawled the Internet looking for anything that states a cyclist must keep to the left. I really did try. I failed. It doesn't exist. We have every right to occupy the centre of the lane. Imagine if we all did that. Imagine the chaos that would result if we as cyclists chose to stand our ground and pootle along at 15 mph along the country's roads not caring that we were holding everyone else up.
Personally, I feel better if I make an effort to help others and I like to think my efforts don't go unappreciated.
It wouldn't have killed the 500's owner to move over a little and help out another road user.

[beardy]

It wouldn't have killed the 500's owner to move over a little and help out another road user.

No it wouldnt would it.

However once that becomes expected, it will then become demanded.

Your comparison with cyclists doing 15mph is quite valid here. The cars have got used to us keeping in the gutter allowing them to progress, so much so that if we try and come out of that gutter, to say for example turn right or to prevent dangerous close overtakes in tight situations, they get angry and may even try and enforce their expectations through the "right of might".

[reohn2]

Fiat driver did nothing wrong, but with a little more awareness might usefully have maintained her line until the bike was past and then taken up her position. Whether she did it consciously or unconsciously, who knows?

I always ask myself what would I have done had I been the Fiat drive,my answer in this case is I'd had have kept the same line as the BMW as there's no need to do otherwise.

Why was a Youtube video made of this, I wonder? (I don't have the benefit of sound at work, so maybe there's something I've missed)

IMO It's to illustrate one of many similar situations where we all can make life a lot easier for others.But some think others are 'cheating' because they've have chosen a better mode that can get them through such heavy and gridlocked traffic.
So some of the box bound,bad choice mode,people choose to make life difficult for those good choice mode,free thinkers who can beat the boxed up system.
It's commonly known as oneupmanship,some rather than see someone else happy when they're sad they choose to make the happy ones sad too,which gives their ego a boost,though doesn't help anyone and can become a bad habit.
There's a lot of it about
Maybe I read too much into it,but it's the way I see it though I'd rather see someone smile than frown,particularly if it doesn't cost me anything.

[reohn2]

However once that becomes expected, it will then become demanded.

I don't think anyone's mentioning demand,IMO courtesy is always welcome.

Your comparison with cyclists doing 15mph is quite valid here. The cars have got used to us keeping in the gutter allowing them to progress, so much so that if we try and come out of that gutter, to say for example turn right or to prevent dangerous close overtakes in tight situations, they get angry and may even try and enforce their expectations through the "right of might".

So they can race to the next TL where the poor man on a bike(of all things) filters past them to the front of an imaginary 'queue'.
They don't like it up 'em Capt' Mannering sir

[Bicycler]

It's a bad example to choose. The car is approaching a junction and the road is about to split into two lanes for the traffic lights. The car's position is consistent with somebody about to enter the right hand filter lane at the junction. The car did not need to be quite so far out but it was not an obvious attempt at blocking the motorcyclist.

On the more general question of lane discipline, I think we're putting too much emphasis on some arbitrary white lines. Maybe as cyclists we get used to talking about our right to use the whole of the lane, meaning that we shouldn't be restricted to cycle lanes and gutters. I don't think that transfers to a right to make large unsignalled movements within that lane. It is an offence to intentionally obstruct the passage of another vehicle by not keeping to the left. Whilst I am happy that the primary position is okay where it prevents unsafe overtakes, needlessly moving right to prevent a legitimate one is a blatant act of obstruction. This is quite important for cyclists as we are often the overtaken and we are quite wary of the space we are left. On wider single carriageway roads there is often enough space for a car to safely overtake a bicycle by straddling the white line despite there being another vehicle coming the opposite direction. I feel that most of us would take issue if the oncoming vehicle suddenly decided to move to the right hand side of their lane

The bad example is a bit of a shame because the point was otherwise quite well made. Filtering helps rather than hinders drivers' progress and is not 'cheating' or 'unfair'.

[Bonefishblues]

ETA @reohn 2

As I said, I don't have the benefit of any commentary.

I do wonder how conscious this was, tbh - IMO I see much more unconscious thoughtlessness on the roads than malicious intent (or maybe I'm just of a kindly disposition? - actually scrub that )

People just haven't an effing clue what's going on beyond that gap to the next car along because, by and large, they just don't look, because it doesn't matter to them. cf the number of rear end accidents on Motorways where brake lights have been going on down the line and no-one reacts to them. I understand lemmings have had a bad press recently, but you get the point.

The point we both make is that it would be so easy to maintain her line and everyone would have got along so much more nicely

[Bicycler]

Vantage here is the law you were looking for http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Wil ... section/78
which creates an offence where:

...the driver of any... carriage... meeting any other waggon, cart, or other carriage, or horses, mules, or other beasts of burthen, shall not keep his... carriage... on the left or near side of the road; or if any person shall in any manner wilfully prevent any other person from passing him, or any... carriage... under his care, upon such highway, or by negligence or misbehaviour prevent, hinder, or interrupt the free passage of any person, waggon, cart, or other carriage or horses, mules, or other beasts of burthen, on any highway, or shall not keep his... carriage... on the left or near side of the road, for the purpose of allowing such passage...

I don't think we can take the keep left requirement to mean never overtake anything so I don't think it applies to (motor)cyclists overtaking queues of traffic. As above, I think the "in any manner wilfully prevent... from passing him" bit applies to deliberate and needless obstruction by cars regardless of them being in "their" lane

[Bonefishblues]

Vantage here is the law you were looking for http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Wil ... section/78
which creates an offence where:

...the driver of any... carriage... meeting any other waggon, cart, or other carriage, or horses, mules, or other beasts of burthen, shall not keep his... carriage... on the left or near side of the road; or if any person shall in any manner wilfully prevent any other person from passing him, or any... carriage... under his care, upon such highway, or by negligence or misbehaviour prevent, hinder, or interrupt the free passage of any person, waggon, cart, or other carriage or horses, mules, or other beasts of burthen, on any highway, or shall not keep his... carriage... on the left or near side of the road, for the purpose of allowing such passage...

As above, I think the "wilfully prevent... from passing him" bit applies equally to deliberate and needless obstruction by cars regardless of them being in "their" lane

...which introduces the complication of establishing intent.

[Bicycler]

Yes, I said earlier that I didn't see this particular incident as a blatant attempt at obstruction. Nor do I ever anticipate police enforcement of such laws. I was just saying that it is illegal deliberately obstruct another vehicle.

[reohn2]

ETA @reohn 2

As I said, I don't have the benefit of any commentary.

Pity,the rider does explain it better than the subtitles.

I do wonder how conscious this was, tbh - IMO I see much more unconscious thoughtlessness on the roads than malicious intent (or maybe I'm just of a kindly disposition? - actually scrub that )

The use of,twitter,facebook and texting,have a lot to answer for

People just haven't an effing clue what's going on beyond that gap to the next car along because, by and large, they just don't look, because it doesn't matter to them. cf the number of rear end accidents on Motorways where brake lights have been going on down the line and no-one reacts to them. I understand lemmings have had a bad press recently, but you get the point.

Quite right.

The point we both make is that it would be so easy to maintain her line and everyone would have got along so much more nicely

My point exactly,we all have the power to make life difficult or great for others without too much effort on our part.But it seems to me that some people get off on maing life as difficult as they can for others out of nothing only nastiness and their own selfish elevation.
We don't know how much of that there is inside one Fiat 500,but the video illustrates what a leettle thought for others could do.

[Bonefishblues]

Yes, I said earlier that I didn't see this particular incident as a blatant attempt at obstruction. Nor do I ever anticipate police enforcement of such laws. I was just saying that it is illegal deliberately obstruct another vehicle.

I am in violent agreement.

I shall lie down in a darkened room until such foolishness passes...

[Postboxer]

Looking how wide his mirrors are, where is he planning on going when he pulls out to overtake, there already isn't much of a gap between the traffic in his lane and the fiat 500, before it pulls across? Maybe the car pulls across to try to prevent an unsafe pass?

[Si]

Fiat driver did nothing wrong, but with a little more awareness might usefully have maintained her line until the bike was past and then taken up her position. Whether she did it consciously or unconsciously, who knows?

Think that I'm kind of with you...we've no proof that she actually looked up the road, saw a MC and thought "I know, I'll pull to the right and block him". Maybe she thought "Oh no, another queue of traffic, well I'm going right at the lights so I'll move to the right of my lane in readiness....blimey what's he shouting at?". In which case the only 'crime' would be not observing what was happening all of the way down the road.

On the other hand, we only get a small window view of the event, the MCer would have had much better awareness of where everything was and what it was doing. Or maybe he had been deliberately blocked umpteen times that week and this slight infringement (that normally wouldn't have bothered him) was the straw that broke the camel's back? Who knows.

Anyway, I have to say that lately I've found that rather than blocking me, more and more drivers have been aware that I'm going to filter and have moved to help me get through - more awareness of cyclists, or more drivers who have taken up cycling?