Acceptable overtake?

[Bonefishblues]

The reason I asked the original question is because I shared the video with local police, and they (apparently an Inspector) expressed their opinion as follows:

"[He] is on a pedal cycle and there is no dangerous overtaking. no vehicles were caused any inconvenience and the vehicle was back on his side of the road when the oncoming vehicle crossed his path."

Explains a lot about road traffic policing standards

I suspect it explains a lot more about resources, TBH

[snibgo]

Has anyone else noted "third car behaviour"?

Yes. I think most drivers don't know where the left side of their car is. They don't want to squish the cyclist, but also don't want to move over unnecessarily. The first driver plays it safe. The second driver thinks (subconsciously) "I don't need to go over that far." The third driver thinks, "Two foot of space, that was plenty of room, I'll leave a foot."

On reporting it: no, I wouldn't bother. Careless driving doesn't occur unless the cyclist is squished.

[redfacedbaldfatman]

My observation is that "it is the third car".
I've commented to club mates for years on how often the third car, in any group of cars, very often gives a close pass. Probably because they are just following the cars in front and have their brain switched off or possibly they never get a clear view of any obstacle ahead.
Has anyone else noted "third car behaviour"?

Definitely. I noticed this a while back, it seems that the first car waits for a good opportunity to overtake, the second driver thinks they can do the same and follows. The third sees "everyone else" overtaking and it becomes a matter of course without thinking, sometimes in the face of on-coming traffic. The fourth car will see that there is on-coming traffic and that the third car's overtake was a bit tight and the whole cycle resets itself.

The trick is to allow the first car to overtake and start moving out to discourage the following overtakes if you can see there is traffic on-coming.

[stork]

Has anyone else noted "third car behaviour"?

Although going a bit off-topic now, I notice this at traffic lights too. Lights change from green to stop (amber). First car carries on through, (maybe legitimately, if to stop would cause a collision). Second car 'thinks' that if the first one went through on amber, they might as well give it a go. Third car copies too, despite lights now being red. Now lights have changed to red, fourth car usually stops.

Of course it's not always the third car, it's more a case of one instance of poor behaviour authorising another one, leading to an escalation of the poor behaviour (until, for example, self-preservation or impossibility kicks in).

[Psamathe]

Has anyone else noted "third car behaviour"?

Yes. I think most drivers don't know where the left side of their car is....

Also, I think they often mis-judge the speed a cyclist is moving and then pull-in too soon. e.g. cyclist at 15 mph in a 30limit (car going at 30) will double the passing time needed compared to a stationary object.

Ian

[mjr]

https://twitter.com/mjray/status/530312008009527297 asks Norfolk and Suffolk Road Policing if they really think that overtake was safe.

[stork]

They've reviewed it again and come back with a response which is slightly less supportive of the driver (describing the overtake as a 'bit tight'). I agree that the danger here was less to me than to the oncoming vehicle.

However, it's a perfect example of the low-level bad driving which, because it is so prevalent, and because enforcement resources are limited, just carries on. And it's this sort of thing which then leads to the perception that the roads are too dangerous to ride on.

I think it's right that police enforcement resources should be directed towards the worst driving, but that does leave open the question of how to improve standards across the board -- or how to improve people's perception of cyclist safety.

This particular road is a good candidate for centre-line removal to reduce speeds and perhaps to improve driver behaviour. It was a 40mph road until a few years ago, despite being in a residential area and forming part of a significant route to two local schools. Even now, speeds are often well above 30mph, and it's pretty unpleasant to walk along the narrow pavement. At the time of day when I ride this road, every car which overtakes me then has to join the back of a long queue to the traffic lights, and most cars along here are making regular journeys and will be aware of this. But still, 'must get past bike...' is the ruling sentiment here.

[Bonefishblues]

They've reviewed it again and come back with a response which is slightly less supportive of the driver (describing the overtake as a 'bit tight'). I agree that the danger here was less to me than to the oncoming vehicle.

However, it's a perfect example of the low-level bad driving which, because it is so prevalent, and because enforcement resources are limited, just carries on. And it's this sort of thing which then leads to the perception that the roads are too dangerous to ride on.

I think it's right that police enforcement resources should be directed towards the worst driving, but that does leave open the question of how to improve standards across the board -- or how to improve people's perception of cyclist safety.

This particular road is a good candidate for centre-line removal to reduce speeds and perhaps to improve driver behaviour. It was a 40mph road until a few years ago, despite being in a residential area and forming part of a significant route to two local schools. Even now, speeds are often well above 30mph, and it's pretty unpleasant to walk along the narrow pavement. At the time of day when I ride this road, every car which overtakes me then has to join the back of a long queue to the traffic lights, and most cars along here are making regular journeys and will be aware of this. But still, 'must get past bike...' is the ruling sentiment here.

Good post - agree with all the sentiments here.

[LollyKat]

They've reviewed it again and come back with a response which is slightly less supportive of the driver (describing the overtake as a 'bit tight'). I agree that the danger here was less to me than to the oncoming vehicle.

But if they had collided, even if only a glancing blow, the chances are that one would have spun into your path.

[Mark1978]

They've reviewed it again and come back with a response which is slightly less supportive of the driver (describing the overtake as a 'bit tight'). I agree that the danger here was less to me than to the oncoming vehicle.

But if they had collided, even if only a glancing blow, the chances are that one would have spun into your path.

Which is the entire point of the matter. With overtaking into oncoming traffic you're always worried the driver will panic and yank the wheel to the left to avoid a head on and if you're alongside at the time..

[irc]

Of course it'sa dodgy overtake. The 3rd car has met the oncoming vehicle before he has fully returned to his own side of tthe road. There would possibly have been a clash of wing mirrors if the oncoming driver had not moved to the very LH edge of the road. And probably braked/slowed down.

[Flinders]

They've reviewed it again and come back with a response which is slightly less supportive of the driver (describing the overtake as a 'bit tight'). I agree that the danger here was less to me than to the oncoming vehicle.

But if they had collided, even if only a glancing blow, the chances are that one would have spun into your path.

Which is the entire point of the matter. With overtaking into oncoming traffic you're always worried the driver will panic and yank the wheel to the left to avoid a head on and if you're alongside at the time..

If it comes to the crunch , I suspect that most drivers would be more likely to swerve towards a cyclist and just hope the cyclist gets out of the way rather than risk hitting an oncoming car. That's why I like to leave a fair bit of space to my left in situations where there tends to be bad overtaking, so I have somewhere to go.............. Contrary to the well researched evidence, In my case I usually, but not always, find that the more space I leave to my left, the more space most traffic gives to me when overtaking. I suspect that is due to the type of roads and time of day I mostly ride.

In this video, I think about 60% of it was the lemming principle, i.e.- 'the vehicles in front got round, so I will go round even if I can't see what's coming the other way when I commit to overtaking'. There is also the fact that a lot of drivers don't correctly judge a cyclist's speed- they usually underestimate it, and so it takes longer to get round than they think it will, hence cutting in too close after the overtake and/or ending up in the right lane facing oncoming traffic.

[mercalia]

cars in in lines are like a train with carriages ( or they like to think they are ) If its ok for one to over take then the whole line can - all rather pathetic & potentially dangerous

[MikeF]

"[He] is on a pedal cycle and there is no dangerous overtaking. no vehicles were caused any inconvenience and the vehicle was back on his side of the road when the oncoming vehicle crossed his path."

Should it be "no motor vehicles were caused any inconvenience and the vehicle was back on his side of the road when the oncoming vehicle crossed his path"?? Inconvenience??!!

[Mark1978]

Inconvenience to motor vehicles is the only factor worthy of consideration clearly.