The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

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Tonyf33
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The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by Tonyf33 »

So having a butchers at the latest 2013 figures and it would seem that the 109 cycling deaths cost in a monetary figure c.£200M
Overall road statisitcs show a total cost of almost £15 Billion.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 013-00.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dology.pdf
Whilst the financial losses cannot in any way relate to the emotional cost especially to those whom suffer severe injuries and/or loss of life even a small % drop in road casualties makes a huge huge difference.
One wonders why there is still so little done relative to what could/should be done not only to further reduce tragedy but also the financial loss to the public purse and individuals.
reohn2
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by reohn2 »

In my neck of the woods between J19 and J16 there is an incident and subsequent hold up almost daily,sometimes upto 3hours or more and 1 hour hold ups are a regular occurrence,usually during rush hour.
Traffic is very heavy most of the time.
Anyone living in the GM area will know it's reputation by radio reports alone if they don't actually use the stretch.

Other than chevrons painted on the road and a warning not to drive to close,there are no speed restrictions no extra camera surveillance and AFAIK no extra police patrols.

Something causes the incidents daily,it isn't an act of God or the devil,but bad driving.

Within a known high incident area with the correct approach to safety things could be better,instead of leaving it to the loonies own devices.
There may be efforts to stop the incidents that I'm not aware of,but if there are they ain't radical enough as they're having no effect.

You'd think on cost to the economy alone it'd be worth it,not to mention the human cost,but still it persists and has done for years.

So if the loonies can't be stopped on motorways what chance on ordinary urban,roads that must be much harder to police?
The answer is surely is good road layout,good policing and the power to remove the loonies from the roads.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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thirdcrank
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by thirdcrank »

Tonyf33 wrote: ... One wonders why there is still so little done ....


This is the result of the casualty reduction approach. The most effective way of reducing cycling casualties would be to ban cycling on roads. The risk of that happening has now passed but politicians and highwaymen doing their dirty work still favour farcities, which they see as the next best thing.
Tonyf33
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by Tonyf33 »

thirdcrank wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote: ... One wonders why there is still so little done ....


This is the result of the casualty reduction approach. The most effective way of reducing cycling casualties would be to ban cycling on roads. The risk of that happening has now passed but politicians and highwaymen doing their dirty work still favour farcities, which they see as the next best thing.


And yet they fail to see that the motorvehicle is by far the greatest problem (or choose to ignore that fact) that by making things safer you actually increase welfare of society/make urban environments a more pleasant place to be and the kicker is that it is proven to be economically sound/beneficial in so so many ways.. http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views ... nd-economy
I tried hard toget my councillor just to get them to act on the Urban Transport Plan from over 2 years back but still we are waiting for even one single thing to be done..response..(in essence), economics. No-one is prepared to open their bloody eyes even just a smidgeon :twisted:
Flinders
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by Flinders »

My impression of things round here (Staffordshire M6 area) is that either the police have given up trying with traffic, or they have no staff. Due to a lot of road works, the congestion in town here is appalling and people are getting ratty having queued for an hour to do a ten minute journey and have started going through red lights three or more at a time (which is not usual) and blocking junctions willy nilly, with or without diamonds; it's getting unbearable and dangerous. Someone reported it and the only response they got was that statistically drivers here are better than average re red lights, totally missing the point that a unique crisis is developing which has transformed local driving habits, which has nothing to do with yearly averages. I wonder if they ever go into the town at all, obviously not for the last month.

We had livestock on the main road here recently, i.e., a cow. Some chaps in a truck saw it, stopped, and got it off the road. (this was rush hour). They phoned the police. No-one came. Eventually they rang the police again, as they were supposed to be working and had been waiting nearly half an hour, keeping the cow off the road. They were told that nobody would be being sent as no-one was available. They protested, and then the story changed to 'oh, actually we are looking for a car in your area'. They pointed out that two police cars had already gone past them. No joy. Meanwhile I and others were running around trying to find out whose cow it was, and someone had got hold of two farmers to look after it until the owner turned up so the men could get back to their work.
Had the two men just left, and the cow had got on the road, there could easily have been an accident. No doubt then the police would have suddenly found someone to come, and then closed the road for about 6 hours while they 'investigated' it. It would have cost a fortune in manpower and possibly a life.

One person suggested they should have said the cow had a gun.
toomsie
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by toomsie »

I don't like the idea of increasing the size of government for anything. Even for the best investments.
However it is not possible for cyclists to buy their own road safety unless they give up cycling altogether.
kwackers
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by kwackers »

toomsie wrote:I don't like the idea of increasing the size of government for anything. Even for the best investments.
However it is not possible for cyclists to buy their own road safety unless they give up cycling altogether.

Good job the Conservatives are in then.

Their basic idea seems to be to reduce government intervention on pretty much everything until we're doing it all ourselves or paying big business for the privilege (or it's not being done) whilst shifting the real power to corporations who can manipulate you however they like and thanks to the reduction in "meddling" under the guise of "doing away with the nanny state" and all the underlying stuff that goes with it there'll be little legally you can do (even if you could afford to).
Of course you could always take your case to Europe whilst you've still got 'human rights', best be quick though!
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mjr
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by mjr »

Flinders wrote:My impression of things round here (Staffordshire M6 area) is that either the police have given up trying with traffic, or they have no staff. Due to a lot of road works, the congestion in town here is appalling and people are getting ratty having queued for an hour to do a ten minute journey and have started going through red lights three or more at a time (which is not usual) and blocking junctions willy nilly, with or without diamonds; it's getting unbearable and dangerous.

It's nice to know that Norfolk was ahead of you motorway counties in some ways. Drivers here have continued through red lights until it's almost laughable for at least 15 years and now the council just seems to set longer and longer times between one set of lights going red and the next going green, with the obvious knock-on delay for any pedestrian and/or cycle crossings nearby.
Someone reported it and the only response they got was that statistically drivers here are better than average re red lights, totally missing the point that a unique crisis is developing which has transformed local driving habits, which has nothing to do with yearly averages.

Never mind that point - are drivers there statistically better than average re red lights simply because so few of the jumpers are being caught now? Sounds like it could be another example of the tragedy of targets.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Postboxer
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by Postboxer »

I have wondered before why there is a delay between the lights changing, if green means proceed if it is safe to do so, there would seem to be little need for anything but the shortest of delays.
reohn2
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by reohn2 »

kwackers wrote:Good job the Conservatives are in then.

Their basic idea seems to be to reduce government intervention on pretty much everything until we're doing it all ourselves or paying big business for the privilege (or it's not being done) whilst shifting the real power to corporations who can manipulate you however they like and thanks to the reduction in "meddling" under the guise of "doing away with the nanny state" and all the underlying stuff that goes with it there'll be little legally you can do (even if you could afford to).
Of course you could always take your case to Europe whilst you've still got 'human rights', best be quick though!


Spot on!
They can do almost anything they like when the population is either asleep or busy wrapped up in facebook or twitter.What a stupid nation we are :?
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toomsie
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by toomsie »

reohn2 wrote:
kwackers wrote:Good job the Conservatives are in then.

Their basic idea seems to be to reduce government intervention on pretty much everything until we're doing it all ourselves or paying big business for the privilege (or it's not being done) whilst shifting the real power to corporations who can manipulate you however they like and thanks to the reduction in "meddling" under the guise of "doing away with the nanny state" and all the underlying stuff that goes with it there'll be little legally you can do (even if you could afford to).
Of course you could always take your case to Europe whilst you've still got 'human rights', best be quick though!


Spot on!
They can do almost anything they like when the population is either asleep or busy wrapped up in facebook or twitter.What a stupid nation we are :?


I don’t think Milton Friedman would be proud of the conservatives today. Just like any other socialist parts, they creating more laws and services that increase power of state. Just when you think that the recession isn’t bad enough. A law comes out that vacuum cleaners need to be less then 2000w or subsidies on contraception and fertility treatment.
Let’s see how the corporation (in a free market) manipulate ordinary folk into making bad decisions. When I bought a smart phone last month, I wanted a very good phone for very little money. Most folk said get an Iphone. Looking back at it, it was a good move, I don’t think there is much chance that evil corporation like Blackberry will have the power to manipulate me, or less intelligent folk to buy a Blackberry phone.
How about cars, I bought a Ford focus Mk2 because I see so many on the roads. Guess what, they have the best reviews and very good value. There are even online review comparing old cars to new.

How about in the bike world. What do you think would if Specialized, Giant and Cannondale become evil over night( without turning to the powers of Government)? Customers would not be happy and they would take their custom elsewhere. What if they all become evil? Well, I would start a bike company that is slightly less evil then the others, and they would have to respond in turn by being less evil then myself to attract customers.
Healthy competition is a good thing. Its everything that the government is not.

The government is good at one thing. Under the Ride2Work scheme, the local authority will help me to buy a nice carbon fibre bike. I am looking at the Borderman Team Fibre. Naturally I will not be commuting on that bike. I will be using my current bike for that.
rfryer
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Joined: 7 Feb 2013, 3:58pm

Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by rfryer »

toomsie wrote:The government is good at one thing. Under the Ride2Work scheme, the local authority will help me to buy a nice carbon fibre bike. I am looking at the Borderman Team Fibre. Naturally I will not be commuting on that bike. I will be using my current bike for that.

From the ride2work rules...
The equipment must mainly be used for travelling to and from the employee's place of work. The government guidelines recommend that at least 50% of the time using the equipment should be for work related

So sorry, the government isn't even good at that :twisted:
kwackers
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Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by kwackers »

toomsie wrote:When I bought a smart phone last month, I wanted a very good phone for very little money. Most folk said get an Iphone. Looking back at it, it was a good move, I don’t think there is much chance that evil corporation like Blackberry will have the power to manipulate me, or less intelligent folk to buy a Blackberry phone.

And in the meantime the government - oh wait, sorry - Europe have forced the service provider for your phone to lower charges - several times.

How about cars, I bought a Ford focus Mk2 because I see so many on the roads. Guess what, they have the best reviews and very good value. There are even online review comparing old cars to new.

And who makes sure these cars are safe? Who makes sure they all have standard features rather than arbitrary indicators or lights?

There's a entire raft of things that government 'meddling' prevents and when that fails European meddling steps in.
As big corporations become the norm we need more not less protection from them. The idea that we'll all be better off because you as a consumer has a choice (albeit a limited choice) is frankly nonsense - why do you think we created the monopolies and mergers commission in 1949?
Even back then we were enlightened enough to know that given free reign corporations want to control your choice by buying up and removing competitors and setting the price, quality, features etc of the product you buy with nothing other than a view to extracting as much cash from you as possible.

Whatever you think, removing controls and restrictions from companies and corporations isn't a good thing. It leaves them free to fulfil their prime directive - extracting cash from you. That the Conservatives do this under the banner of 'growth' is disingenuous at best since it's predominantly growth for the top percentile while the rest of us pay the price and stagnate.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by reohn2 »

Wot 'e sed ^,and better than I could :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
toomsie
Posts: 193
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 11:05am

Re: The financial cost/loss of UK Road incidents £15Billion

Post by toomsie »

kwackers wrote:
toomsie wrote:When I bought a smart phone last month, I wanted a very good phone for very little money. Most folk said get an Iphone. Looking back at it, it was a good move, I don’t think there is much chance that evil corporation like Blackberry will have the power to manipulate me, or less intelligent folk to buy a Blackberry phone.

And in the meantime the government - oh wait, sorry - Europe have forced the service provider for your phone to lower charges - several times.

How about cars, I bought a Ford focus Mk2 because I see so many on the roads. Guess what, they have the best reviews and very good value. There are even online review comparing old cars to new.

And who makes sure these cars are safe? Who makes sure they all have standard features rather than arbitrary indicators or lights?

There's a entire raft of things that government 'meddling' prevents and when that fails European meddling steps in.
As big corporations become the norm we need more not less protection from them. The idea that we'll all be better off because you as a consumer has a choice (albeit a limited choice) is frankly nonsense - why do you think we created the monopolies and mergers commission in 1949?
Even back then we were enlightened enough to know that given free reign corporations want to control your choice by buying up and removing competitors and setting the price, quality, features etc of the product you buy with nothing other than a view to extracting as much cash from you as possible.

Whatever you think, removing controls and restrictions from companies and corporations isn't a good thing. It leaves them free to fulfil their prime directive - extracting cash from you. That the Conservatives do this under the banner of 'growth' is disingenuous at best since it's predominantly growth for the top percentile while the rest of us pay the price and stagnate.
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