Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

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Psamathe
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote:
honesty wrote:It's interesting that when I was taught to drive we were taught to indicate out around parked cars (well all stationary objects in the road) especially if the maneuver took you into the oncoming lane.

I was taught to indicate if oncoming traffic means you wait behind the stationary object in the road rather than flow smoothly around it. The "make sure your signals will not confuse others" part of Highway Code Rule 103 probably means you should follow the prevailing fashion (within reason - I still indicate in Essex :lol: ) rather than blindly stick to dogma. The picture in Rule 153 (car waiting to pull around an artificial chicane) only shows stop/tail lights and no indicators.

I can't remember what I was taught, but when driving these days I indicate if I am going to make any manoeuvre which may affect, inform or concern any other vehicles. e.g. with a following car when overtaking a cyclist I will indicate to inform the following car that there is something there they may not have seen (maybe my own car was obscuring it) and they will also need to pull out for it. Overtaking with oncoming traffic probably depends on how far away the oncoming traffic is, but with following traffic I'll indicate so they know I'm going to manoeuvre (just in case any high performance eg. motorbike decides to pull out from behind as well). Around a parked car, depends on situation. If we are waiting in a queue for a gap in oncoming traffic, then probably not; a lot will depend on the situation.

Ian
Flinders
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by Flinders »

If in doubt, I always err on the side of giving more indications rather than fewer.

I find it infuriating that so many drivers don't indicate at junctions or on roundabouts. Someone looks like they may be turning left, but no signals, so not possible to be sure. So I have to slow down (and possibly get rear-ended which is another matter) or if I'm stopped at the junction, wait, which means I don't get out onto the roundabout when I otherwise might, and then the car behind me hoots because all they see is the vehicle turning off. This applies just as much when driving as when cycling.
I also see traffic wanting to join from my left from a side road in heavy traffic. If the vehicle isn't signalling, I don't know whether I can let it out (if it is turning left, so it's safe) or whether it would be dangerous to do in case they are turning right, as I can see traffic coming the other way which they can't see. It's maddening.
beardy
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by beardy »

It is infuriating when they do not indicate at roundabouts, making you stop or wait unnecessarily.
Unfortunately it is often worse when they do indicate as they get it wrong in just about every way that you can think of. Wrong direction, wrong time, not cancelled etc etc.

I have to admit there is a roundabout that I use which has two main exits (left and right) and a tiny works exit before them. I often indicate left on approach and then cancel it when I see and remember the minor entrance. I think this is what happens to people, they only see the important roads and often that means only the road that they were intending to use! A more subtle form of "I always turn left here, why should I indicate?"
tatanab
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by tatanab »

This desire to see people use indicators is a difficult one because for safety if an indicator is flashing it should be realised that all it proves is that the bulb works. A constant problem that we all have to decide what to believe on each occasion.

I use a small roundabout where 90% of the traffic turns left. I can be waiting to emerge from that turning for a while because only a very small number of people indicate - I suppose the reason is that they are following what is nominally the "main" road.
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hondated
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by hondated »

karlt wrote:Got beeped at by a moped today. From his viewpoint, I suppose, he was behind me, thinking about overtaking, and then I suddenly moved right.

From my viewpoint, I saw parked cars ahead and moved out to pass them. I could hear he was behind me, but not particularly close.


Thing is, wasn't my manoeuvre 100% predictable? Does he really need a signal from me to show I'm not planning to jump over the parked vehicles or drive into the back of them? I mean, I was doing about 25mph - exactly what else was I going to do?

Karlt being a motorist cyclist and motorcyclist I don't see what else you could of done. If I encounter a cyclist on the road whilst driving or motorcycling I am looking at the traffic conditions ahead and anticipating what they are about to do is parked cars pulling out and I regard that has my duty as they are far more vulnerable to being injured than I am. I should add I am one of those slow motorcyclists these days.
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mjr
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by mjr »

Roundabouts and cyclists are not parked cars. Anyone got anything more to add that is on-topic?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Flinders
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by Flinders »

tatanab wrote:This desire to see people use indicators is a difficult one because for safety if an indicator is flashing it should be realised that all it proves is that the bulb works. A constant problem that we all have to decide what to believe on each occasion.

Agreed. Even if someone was indicating, if their road speed and position gave me any doubts at all about what they were doing, I'd still wait, even if it incurred the wrath of drivers in the queue behind me.
I think we must pick up some very, very small anomalies in a car's movements very quickly. I often know what a car is about to do well before it indicates or slows/turns. I think most drivers do. It isn't anything supernatural, it's just very small differences in positioning/speed that a driver makes, or doesn't make, in anticipation of a move. How many times do you 'know' a driver isn't going to stop at a junction but pull out in front of you (and force you to brake) long before they get to the junction, or know from one look in the mirror that the car behind is going to overtake well before it signals or moves out?
beardy
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by beardy »

mjr wrote:Roundabouts and cyclists are not parked cars. Anyone got anything more to add that is on-topic?


As we were not there when Karl had his incident we are pretty restricted about what we can say that is so rigidly on topic that what we are now discussing is considered off topic.

In the Opening Post Karl asked
Thing is, wasn't my manoeuvre 100% predictable? Does he really need a signal from me to show I'm not planning to jump over the parked vehicles


You may think we are going off-topic by discussing roundabouts, however we may think that we are on topic by discussing indicators and the reasons why they may be needed or unnecessary.
Bicycler
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by Bicycler »

There are a few things to bear in mind.

It is best not to be moving in and out where there are frequent parked cars. If there's another one just up ahead maintain your position.

It is generally best not to ride right next to the kerb. Depending on the road this may mean making a big manoeuver to enter the moving traffic lane rather than a subtle shift of position. Your priority is more likely to get recognised if it appears to the driver that you are the vehicle ahead, not one that they are passing as if in a separate lane. Speaking of which, if you are in a cycle lane you are required to give way when wishing to exit it. Many gutter cyclists take to the pavement wherever they meet obstacles like parked cars. If you do not look like you are about to pull out this might be what the driver expects you to do. Which leads on to...

...making the move well before reaching the parked car. As well as avoiding a sudden manoeuver requiring slowing and potentially having to stop to wait for a gap in traffic, it allows you to ease out, indicating if necessary and making eye contact with the driver so that they are clear of your intentions all in good time before their attention is distracted by passing the parked vehicle.
Last edited by Bicycler on 29 Oct 2014, 2:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

I think the error in the OP is the use of the word "expect"

Most motorists don't expect anything, they drive without any concept of building up a map of expected behaviour around them.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
andy65
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Re: Parked cars - what do they *expect* I'm going to do.

Post by andy65 »

In my Highway Code it says it is the overtaking vehicles responsibility to make sure it is clear. Having said that you should be defensive and check over your shoulder
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