Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

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Flinders
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by Flinders »

irc wrote:
MartinC wrote:Why don't we have hi viz cars? Always intrerested to see the promoters of hi viz answers to this.



Less need. Cars other than junctions cars are traveling in separate lanes at similar speeds. On rural roads the closing speed of a car catching up with another car may be 5 or 10mph. Plenty of time. With bikes the closing speed could be 50mph.

Also cars are big and in the centre of lanes. Easy to see. What's the frontal area of a cyclist compared to a car? Which is most likely to be hidden by a door pillar?

Anyway isn't the use of daylight running lights in some places the car equivelent of HiViz? So it is promoted in some places.



I'd disagree in some respects, actually. Car closing speeds are faster, for one thing.
I now have (not my choice, but out of necessity) a black car. My previous one was red (again, not my choice). There is a very noticeable difference in how other cars react between the two cars. Given the choice, I'd always pick a red one. Other drivers consistently gave the red one more space. And other vehicles, lorries especially, seem regularly to drift right in their lane towards the black one as I overtake on the motorway, which is most disconcerting; it very rarely happened with the red one. It's almost like they are sucked towards me.

As a cyclist I try to be easily seen. This very evening after dark I noticed that a lot of cyclists on the 'footpath' cycle track I drove past who were wearing yellowish jackets were much less obvious than those wearing just a few small reflective strips. I think that in the dark, it's more noticable to have reflective strips than high viz, unless the high viz is also very reflective. I also noticed that several cyclists had much brighter front lights than back lights. Of course, they might need bright front lights when turning across traffic, or if part of their route was unlit, but my concern was that because of all the other lights around, some of the back lights didn't show up very well in the street/car lighting. As other lights get brighter, it starts a spiral where bike lights need to be brighter to stand out, not a good thing in my opinion, as in the end anything unlit, like pedestrians, becomes virtually invisible.
MartinC
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by MartinC »

irc wrote:
MartinC wrote: Your rationale would also seem to predict that the chances of a car running into another is therefore very low - but we know this not to be true in practice,?


On the contrary most people can drive for years or decades without having an accident.


................but apparently many cannot.
Tasker
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by Tasker »

[quote="DGG1941" I'd be curious to understand why some cyclist dress this way and whether I'm a lone voice of concern on their behalf.[/quote]

No you're not - I agree. I was a passenger in a car earlier this week, travelling down a fast, 70/80 MPH straight dual carriageway road overhung with trees, very popular for clubmen on training runs. There was just such an idiot type as you describe. It was overcast and dull - under the trees you just couldn't see the fool. All dressed in macho black, until you were upon him. I felt like asking my companion to pull over so I could flag him down and warn him - but then I'd have been met with a mouthful of abuse.

Just leave them to it and leave some flowers at the spot, after all it was all the beastly motorist's fault - wasn't it?
beardy
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by beardy »

Tasker wrote:
DGG1941 wrote: I'd be curious to understand why some cyclist dress this way and whether I'm a lone voice of concern on their behalf.


No you're not - I agree. I was a passenger in a car earlier this week, travelling down a fast, 70/80 MPH straight dual carriageway road overhung with trees, very popular for clubmen on training runs. There was just such an idiot type as you describe. It was overcast and dull - under the trees you just couldn't see the fool. All dressed in macho black, until you were upon him. I felt like asking my companion to pull over so I could flag him down and warn him - but then I'd have been met with a mouthful of abuse.

Just leave them to it and leave some flowers at the spot, after all it was all the beastly motorist's fault - wasn't it?


Well now you mention it, Yes it was.

Especially if even though they could not see, they still drive 10mph above the speed limit.
MartinC
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by MartinC »

Tasker wrote:................a fast, 70/80 MPH straight dual carriageway road............beastly motorist's fault - wasn't it?


Would that be the beastly motorist who thinks the law doesn't apply to them?
Tonyf33
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by Tonyf33 »

Tasker wrote:
No you're not - I agree. I was a passenger in a car earlier this week, travelling down a fast, 70/80 MPH straight dual carriageway road overhung with trees, very popular for clubmen on training runs. There was just such an idiot type as you describe. It was overcast and dull - under the trees you just couldn't see the fool. All dressed in macho black, until you were upon him. I felt like asking my companion to pull over so I could flag him down and warn him - but then I'd have been met with a mouthful of abuse.

Just leave them to it and leave some flowers at the spot, after all it was all the beastly motorist's fault - wasn't it?

Sweet so laying the blame onto someone doing something perfectly legal and safe. Sounds like you were either not looking properly for other road users given you were a passenger or your eyesight is so poor that you should never operate a motorvehicle without getting your eyes tested and rectified first?
You know because idiots drive on roads whom don't look properly or have difficient eyesight all the time and kill thousands/maim tens of thousands...
And just to note only a signed dual carriageway has a 70mph LIMIT, 80mph is totally illegal and 70mph is often dangerous if you are unable to see the road ahead properly :roll:
TonyR
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by TonyR »

Tasker wrote:....travelling down a fast, 70/80 MPH straight dual carriageway road ...


HINT: Its a speed limit not a speed target
Edwards
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by Edwards »

So what are the people stating about the speed limit going to do to stop the large numbers of drivers traveling at these high speeds?

I feel that these sorts of statements do not reflect the real world and tend to show some people are living in their own little word away from reality.
Keith Edwards
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beardy
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by beardy »

The first thing that we are doing, right here and now on this thread, is questioning and disputing that they are in the right when they do so.

This attitude is the biggest problem that cyclists face on the road. I am a long term courier/ van driver and I never have these problems with cyclists.
kwackers
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by kwackers »

beardy wrote:This attitude is the biggest problem that cyclists face on the road. I am a long term courier/ van driver and I never have these problems with cyclists.

Indeed. One of the somewhat bizarre things I find when I hear people (whom I know and therefore must drive the same roads as me) complaining about cyclists is why I never have the issues they have?
I can't help but think the basic problem is them and not the cyclists at all.
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honesty
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by honesty »

Edwards wrote:So what are the people stating about the speed limit going to do to stop the large numbers of drivers traveling at these high speeds?

I feel that these sorts of statements do not reflect the real world and tend to show some people are living in their own little word away from reality.


Blanket speed cameras. If you dont want to generate revenue for the police through it, don't speed. Simple.

There is also an arguement for increasing motorway speeds to 80mph whilst reducing town speeds to 20mph as well.
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Si
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by Si »

It's like being punched in a pub.

If someone takes a swing at you and you don't duck in time then whose fault is it? Theirs for hitting you or yours for not doing everything you can to get out of the way?

Obviously theirs. However, you'd still want to duck wouldn't you? Ducking could save you from being hit. However the jury is still out as to whether wearing hi-viz in the pub will stop you getting hit, with some recent research suggesting that it doesn't help.
beardy
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by beardy »

But now it has got to the point that they are swinging a punch because they expect you to duck and if they hit you it was your fault for not doing so!!
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mjr
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by mjr »

Edwards wrote:So what are the people stating about the speed limit going to do to stop the large numbers of drivers traveling at these high speeds?

I feel that these sorts of statements do not reflect the real world and tend to show some people are living in their own little word away from reality.

As well as trying to challenge bad attitudes about speeding (not so much here, where plenty of people do: 80mph dual carriageway(!) :roll: ) I have taken part in Speedwatch and Streetwatch and similar campaigns. I lobby the police commissioners (through RoadJustice and otherwise) and partnerships to focus more on speeding and other types of bad driving.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Edwards
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Re: Visibility: why are do so many riders in black

Post by Edwards »

Unfortunately as far as cyclists are concerned the law is such that if you do not duck from the punch you have to prove you are not at fault.

I know that when a person is hit by a car what they were wearing is questioned and wearing the wrong things can make the whole process take longer.
Cameron has stated that "The War on Motorists is Over" so more speed cameras is not going to happen.

In this country now we have choices to make and saying what you wear should not make a difference is wishful thinking. I am not saying this is right just reflecting what is happening to cyclists.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
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