Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by [XAP]Bob »

A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
freeflow
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by freeflow »

Is it me or do others here think that most CAR headlights even when dipped still dazzle? I dont think a few cycle lights make that much difference?


I agree, even when correctly adjusted, dipped headlights are unpleasantly bright and IMHO have got brighter over the past 10 years or so.
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by SA_SA_SA »


But 3 -4Hz is legal: the 3Hz self-induced fit case I heard of was due to a cyclist holding their own lamp right up to their eye (don't do that then :) ): ie at that freq the source needs to fill your visual field and be comparatively very bright.

As long as passing cycle lamps (a small part of visual field) do not cause fits then surely that is good enough, and so I am still wondering if cycle-style lamps in the range of 4- 7Hz were ever documented as causing fits.
EDIT found this http://www.birket.com/technical-library/107-reading-room/technical-library/160-strobe-vs-epilepsymentioning 5Hz.

1-2Hz is a rubbish rate for flashing front/rear cycle lamps IMHO. And its the same rate as turn indicators.

I am now conflicted about flashing lamps: Bahhhhhh.

NB I note you can get battery powered amber led lamps that look like the rotating beacons Tractors etc use. http://www.flashing-beacons.co.uk/?main_page=index&cPath=491_559 But these are rotating rather than flashing :)
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drossall
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by drossall »

peterh11 wrote:I'm not sure of the legal position here but I think lights at the more traditional level (between about axle and handlebar levels) are more effective.

The legal position is on the CTC lighting page. Since the requirement is to fix lights to the vehicle (bike), those fixed to the rider don't count. I don't think there has ever been case law to decide whether fixing lights to a bag on the bike counts as fixing to the bike, but as long as the light was visible, I can't see anyone caring.

In practice, of course, the Police would probably be happy to see visible lights anywhere, even on the end of the rider's nose, but the above is the legal position.

Oh, and notice the bit about centre-line or off-side. Lots of riders have lights fixed just left of the stem. That does not meet the requirement.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by [XAP]Bob »

drossall wrote:
peterh11 wrote:I'm not sure of the legal position here but I think lights at the more traditional level (between about axle and handlebar levels) are more effective.

The legal position is on the CTC lighting page. Since the requirement is to fix lights to the vehicle (bike), those fixed to the rider don't count. I don't think there has ever been case law to decide whether fixing lights to a bag on the bike counts as fixing to the bike, but as long as the light was visible, I can't see anyone caring.

In practice, of course, the Police would probably be happy to see visible lights anywhere, even on the end of the rider's nose, but the above is the legal position.

Oh, and notice the bit about centre-line or off-side. Lots of riders have lights fixed just left of the stem. That does not meet the requirement.


Unless their stem is wonky ;)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by SA_SA_SA »

drossall wrote:......Oh, and notice the bit about centre-line or off-side. Lots of riders have lights fixed just left of the stem. That does not meet the requirement.


Hmm, is that an absolute rule or is more or less central good enough?:

ie is the following possible
in-surer-ants lawyer: my client failed to see the cyclists bright legal front lamp because it was mounted in an unapproved fashion a fraction to the left of the bikes centreline..

I had presumed centrally rather central so roughly central ie just to the left was good enough....
Last edited by SA_SA_SA on 16 Oct 2014, 12:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
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squeaker
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by squeaker »

freeflow wrote:
Is it me or do others here think that most CAR headlights even when dipped still dazzle? I dont think a few cycle lights make that much difference?


I agree, even when correctly adjusted, dipped headlights are unpleasantly bright and IMHO have got brighter over the past 10 years or so.
+1: as noted above, the blue spill from modern car lights (even when correctly adjusted) is barely acceptable on unlit roads. Someone/committee screwed up somewhere :evil:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by [XAP]Bob »

SA_SA_SA wrote:
drossall wrote:......Oh, and notice the bit about centre-line or off-side. Lots of riders have lights fixed just left of the stem. That does not meet the requirement.


Hmm, is that an absolute rule or is more or less central good enough?:

ie is the following possible
in-surer-ants lawyer: my client failed to see the cyclists bright legal front lamp because it was mounted in an unapproved fashion a fraction to the left of the bikes centreline..

I had presumed centrally rather central so roughly central ie just to the left was good enough....


It says central or offside - I assume it is absolute - although having said that I'm sure that some motorbikes have their lights "left and right" up front - maybe the dipped beam is to the offside? Maybe they are independently type approved?
Maybe it's "don't take the mick"
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
peterh11
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by peterh11 »

Great debate! Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Re the pedal reflectors - my point was that they are a useful default for the rider who has no interest in other than getting on the bike and riding it. Riding back home yesterday I had a stealth cyclist coming towards me on the common - what I saw was his pedal reflectors lit up in my (IQ Cyo) headlamp. If you've got other reflectors and lights, then you should be free to swap them for reflector-less ones.

It seems quite a few people agree with me on the overly bright and too-white flashing front lights. I had two of those yesterday and one today on the way home. Frankly, they hurt my eyes,and are highly distracting. These lights should be banned from sale (at least those with fixings for bike or clothing), as they are a hazard on the roads. The overly blue-white colour and the small size makes it worse, and it is a shame that car headlights seem to be subject to the same trend.

Flashing rear lights are less dangerous and unpleasant, but I still don't like them and if I am riding in a group I will ask the people in front of me to put theirs on steady. But it does seem like the benefits of them should be carefully researched before encouraging them.

The reflective orange/yellow vests are very good because they give you shape, you are not just a point of light. Even in my bike headlamp they show up well. Similar principle as the red reflective border you see commonly on the rear of large lorries. Not suggesting any compulsion, but I observe that they are good if you want to be seen.

When I am out of town at night, oncoming cars more often than not do dip their lights for me, I guess the Cyo looks like a proper headlight and so gets some respect perhaps?

Shall I write a letter to Cycle? (is someone from Cycle editorial team reading this?)

Peter H
drossall
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by drossall »

SA_SA_SA wrote:I had presumed centrally rather central so roughly central ie just to the left was good enough....

The law say centrally so, presumably, just left of is technically not compliant. I can't imagine a policeman stopping you, but if a driver hit you and claimed that the position of your light contributed, I suppose the case would have to be argued.

I can't imagine that there is any case law, however.
thirdcrank
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by thirdcrank »

Just to satisfy my curiosity, if somebody has some form of bar-mounted front lamp, why would they be bothered whether it was just to the right of the stem or the left? I'm thinking here of some sort of clip-on bracket which goes on the fatter bit of the bars near the stem. I can understand why riders might be unaware of the requirement in the regs and so might position it to the nearsie, but I can't think of a reason for saying it's imperative that it should be fitted to there, rather than on the offside. :?
beardy
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by beardy »

I put it on the left because I find it easier to use the buttons there, they could move and I would get used to it.

Except one of my bikes has a brake top lever fitted just for the front brake, which is on the right side and doesnt leave room for the light.

On the other hand I do have a smaller LED light fitted on the stem of each bike, if only they were BS stamped (and I had pedal reflectors) then I would be legal on the new bike as well as the old ones.
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bigjim
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by bigjim »

A couple of weeks ago I had to ride at night along the cycle path on Lisbon front. It was dark, about 9pm and the path was packed with cyclists. 90% were on MTBs They were flying along and had powerful headlights attached. I was constantly dazzled and had to keep stopping until they had passed. It was dangerous for me as there were high kerbs where the path met a junction and I could not see them. OK on an MTB, but I was on a 700c tourer. IMO their lights were far too bright. I could not see the rider or the bike just the dazzling light. If I was in a car I would be forced to look away. Not good.
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by SA_SA_SA »

thirdcrank wrote:Just to satisfy my curiosity, if somebody has some form of bar-mounted front lamp, why would they be bothered whether it was just to the right of the stem or the left? I'm thinking here of some sort of clip-on bracket which goes on the fatter bit of the bars near the stem. I can understand why riders might be unaware of the requirement in the regs and so might position it to the nearsie, but I can't think of a reason for saying it's imperative that it should be fitted to there, rather than on the offside. :?


Because I might have another (main?) approved lamp on the offside (main and reserve tank?) :)

I think it is common on some Bromptons because it avoids the lamp being partially obscured by a brake/gear cable.
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Also ,on Bromptons, the slightly nearside mounting may mean a lamp can be left fitted when folded, where it would need removed upon folding if fitted on the offside.
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