Lights: flashing, bright: article in Cycle

[peterh11]

The recent article in Cycle on lights was interesting. I see a lot of posts about lights. Here is a perspective from a town where cycles outnumber cars, and it is common to be riding or waiting in a queue at traffic lights with other bikes - Cambridge. I ride and drive round Cambridge on a daily basis, and here are my observations. It would be interesting to hear from others.

Flashing lights are OK where there is one lone bike trying to be visible to cars in the distance, and quite good as "daylight running" lights in the country. However when you are cycling behind other cyclists with bright flashing rear lights it is very unpleasant and distracting. Bright oncoming front flashing lights are awful because they are usually pointing upwards and shine into your eyes to dazzle you. In my view they are just not fit for purpose in a city like Cambridge.

Many cyclists in Cambridge attach lights to their backpacks, helmets or other parts of their clothing. This tends to lift the lights up high and reduces their effectiveness, they often merge into other lights and are not at the height that says "cycle". They also are at the right height often to dazzle. I'm not sure of the legal position here but I think lights at the more traditional level (between about axle and handlebar levels) are more effective.

I suggest that instead of "on-off" flashers, the industry should be encouraged towards the sort that have multiple LEDs and switch from one to another, giving a moving effect but crucially NOT the bright-dark effect which is so unpleasant. Many lights have this feature - how about making that the only flashing mode allowed? I'm not suggesting outlawing flashers completely, though if I'm riding with someone using them I ask them to switch to steady mode.

In an environment with a high density of cyclists, good, steady lights and reflectors work well for visibility - to be seen by other cyclists and drivers - and are more pleasant for everyone. If everyone had a hub dynamo with modern lights and standlights, this would work just fine in a city like Cambridge. But they don't, and I don't expect they ever will round here.

On the subject of pedal reflectors - please let's keep them. Sometimes these are the only visible cue to spot the cyclist with no lights, no front or rear reflectors, and dark clothing. In the light cast by a cycle dynamo or car headlight, they show up a treat, and they are moving which also helps. There are plenty of such cyclists in Cambridge -maybe there shouldn't be, but there are, and the occasional police campaign doesn't change that. Actually, the standard-issue reflectors are better for seeing bikes than some of the low quality lights with almost flat batteries I see on a daily basis!

Peter H

[[XAP]Bob]

Pedal reflectors fail in so many cases they're a joke.

Ignoring most modern pedals, they don't work with luggage, or a trike, or a recumbemt, or....

[Bicycler]

At risk of sounding like a broken record, I do find that many lights sold to cyclists shine too much light into the eyes of other road users. Unfortunately too many cyclists believe that the more light they can shine at people the safer they will be. The nuisance of such lights is exacerbated significantly when they are put into a flashing mode.

Personally I am not a fan of the "moving" multiple LED lights you mention; aside from their illegality (as sole lights) I think they offer all the distance perception problems of flashing light without the obvious "it's a bike" recognition of a flasher. Having said that both of those are issues in true darkness rather than city environments.

I do share your concern to an extent. I would find a bright flashing front light simply too annoying to use and would not willingly subject someone else to it. I do use a flashing rear light as well as a constant one but I took particular care with the flasher to find one with good all round visibility but not so bright as to be terribly uncomfortable to ride behind

As for pedal reflectors, I agree that we should not remove the requirement for them to be fitted to bikes at point of sale. However, I think that CJ's suggestion that cyclists riding at night should be able to choose alternate means of making themselves visible (IIRC his suggestion was a second rear light) wass perfectly sensible. We have to remember that many cyclists use clipless pedals, large panniers, tricycles or recumbent cycles which currently prevent them from riding legally at night. The law does need to be changed to correct this.

[freeflow]

I am frequently amused by the discussion about bike lights. Having commuted by bike for many years and migrating from the old ever ready lights, through 20w lead acid battery systems to led lights (I was at the front of the queue for the first exposure lights) I am firmly of the opinion that car headlights, even when dimmed are the problem. Therefore I use and advocate as much light as possible on my bike with as much flashing as I can usefully manage. I want to be able to see where I'm going despite oncoming dazzle from car headlights and I don' t really care if I dazzle others.

[kwackers]

I don' t really care if I dazzle others.

Cheers.

[Lance Dopestrong]

You will care that you dazzle others when they can't judge your speed and have you off.

[Psamathe]

... and I don' t really care if I dazzle others.

A dazzled car driver is probably in less control and less able to see where you are. Dazzling car drivers will be counter productive when it comes to your own safety, dangerous to others, totally inconsiderate. Sort of behaviour that a few car drivers get so badly criticised for on forums like this. And you don't care when you do it to others.

Ian

[Psamathe]

When driving I find a flashing rear light on a bike far less noticeable than a solid rear light. The most noticeable I've seen are actually what might be described as a "pulsing" rear light (constant on with extra brightness pulses). However, these seem the exception.

However, I do find flashing front lights more noticeable than the constant on ones.

But talking about open roads with an occasional cyclist, not a busy city centre with lots of cyclists.

Ian

[freeflow]

You will car that you dazzle others when they can't judge your speed and have you off.

As opposed to having me off because I can't be seen against the glare of dipped headlights.

My accumulated experience as a car driver and as a cyclist with increasingly bright lights is that if I am dazzled I slow down and maybe even stop. This also seems to apply to other car drivers.

A dazzled car driver is probably in less control and less able to see where you are. Dazzling car drivers will be counter productive when it comes to your own safety, dangerous to others, totally inconsiderate. Sort of behaviour that a few car drivers get so badly criticised for on forums like this. And you don't care when you do it to others.

No I don't because I consider car drivers, even with dipped headlights, to be constantly guilty of dazzling me. You may set you standards low to accommodate such behaviors, I don't and see no need to moderate my behavior when I have to deal with what I consider to be inconsiderate behaviour from every car I meet coming in the opposite direction.

If folks want to understand the dynamics of the lighting situation then I'd recommend reading up on 'The tradgedy of the commons' because night lighting is one such scenario.

[beardy]

The theory of the tragedy of the commons isnt either an excuse for, or a call for, a race to the bottom.

I do find the defining feature of night driving nowadays to be some git behind me with their dipped headlights brightly illuminating my car ceiling and mirror region. I dont see me being a git like them too as an answer to that problem.

[Flinders]

As a driver I find flashing red rear lights on bikes more noticable than steady ones.
Pedal reflectors are fine, but my pedals don't take them. So perhaps anklets that are reflective, or have lights, would be a decent substitute if the law were to catch up with modern bike design.
Spoke reflectors can be useful to catch the attention of drivers coming out of side roads. I'd have them on now if I didn't do all my cycling in daylight these days. (I do carry lights in winter in case of sudden bad weather).

I wouldn't want my front light to be dazzling anyone.
Quite apart from the anti-social aspect of it, as a driver, if I'm dazzled by sun or lights I do indeed slow down, or stop. But in that respect I'm far more the exception than the rule. The most dangerous drivers are the very ones who won't slow down if they're dazzled, they just carry on regardless and use 'I was dazzled' as an excuse for everything up to and including what I'd call murder. And of course, slowing down or stopping can be instrumental in causing a shunt, which can run across the carriageway too, although it's always the driver behind's fault if there is one.

[mjr]

As a driver I find flashing red rear lights on bikes more noticable than steady ones.

I do if I'm approaching from behind, but if I'm turning then they're very much a "blink and you miss them" so I think I prefer a steady light. If only I could remember where I put my AAA-using Knightlite is :-/ because I want it for the non-dynamo lights. I'm sick of the cost and annoyance of replacing button cells which do seem to run down far quicker in steady mode.

Pedal reflectors are fine, but my pedals don't take them. So perhaps anklets that are reflective, or have lights, would be a decent substitute if the law were to catch up with modern bike design.

I think if your pedals don't take reflectors (why isn't this part of the purchasing decision?) then if you wear yellow ankle bands of some sort, you'll all the benefit of looking pedally and almost no-one will remark upon it.

I wouldn't want my front light to be dazzling anyone.

Yes, well done. I'm getting heartily sick of all the cycling facebook groups where people are advertising Chinese ebay off-road lamps for on-road use, quite apart from the fire report on this forum, but what can you do? Too many shops (Halfords, Evans, ...) are happy to sell bad lights too.

[Lance Dopestrong]

In use one of the Chinese jobs from commuting. I aim it at the road surface 5 or 6 metres ahead and not into the faces of incoming road users. Even cheap lights are no excuse for dazzling.

[freeflow]

The theory of the tragedy of the commons isnt either an excuse for, or a call for, a race to the bottom.

I thought that was the whole point of TOC. It explains why, without appropriate governance, its always a race to the bottom/worst case. The use of the term 'Tradgedy' is quite deliberate as it described the inevitable remorseless of the process.

[mjr]

The theory of the tragedy of the commons isnt either an excuse for, or a call for, a race to the bottom.

I thought that was the whole point of TOC. It explains why, without appropriate governance, its always a race to the bottom/worst case. The use of the term 'Tradgedy' is quite deliberate as it described the inevitable remorseless of the process.

That is what it means, but that is not the same as instructing people to race to the bottom as fast as possible!