More Dawes bashing?
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- Location: Swindon
More Dawes bashing?
To cut a long story short I seriously looked at getting a Dawes Ultra Galaxy last year as my London commuter but ended up getting a genuine CX bike for about the same price as the more sporty geometry and lighter weight seemed more appropriate.
Anyway, having now started to ride much longer distances I'm revisiting the possibility of getting an Ultra Galaxy. I needed to get some bike bits so popped into a local bike shop. While waiting to be served I wandered around looking at the bikes. To my surprise I found a 2014 Ultra Galaxy ( front badge still peeling!) In the touring section. Decided to go through a genuine process of buying it by checking out the bike ie what am I getting for my money. Firstly the group set looked a bit of a mish mash (ugly?) especially as my current bikes groupset is all from I group set.
Brake levers Tiagra. Was surprised to find that these are entry level.
Crank. Took a while to find out about this but it was from a set below even Tiagra and it's entry level spec.
Rear mech. For some reason Dawes has specified 105. Am wondering if that's a marketing choice?
Wheels. Alexrims. Salesperson told me its very much a budget brand and the wheels would cost about £60 retail for both.
Brakes standard shimano discs
Rear rack. Not Blackburn no lowriders included.
Generally what I found was a mass of entry and sub-entry level kit on what Dawes is flogging as its premium top of the range tourer. Apart from the 853 frame (£600 retail on its own) where the hell is £1800 worth bike??
My current bike once you factor in the frame cost difference would be £250 more expensive BUT for that £250 you'd get full Shimano Ultegra and a £600 wheelset.
Is Dawes taking the pee?
Just noticed on Dawes 2014 marketing for the Ulltra Galaxy " Together with 30 speed Shimano 105 gears" no mention of the mass of entry level Tiagra or sub-entry level crank!!!
Definitely NOT getting one but wondering about getting last years UG frame and specing myself with full Ultegra groupo what with it costing below £500.
Anyway, having now started to ride much longer distances I'm revisiting the possibility of getting an Ultra Galaxy. I needed to get some bike bits so popped into a local bike shop. While waiting to be served I wandered around looking at the bikes. To my surprise I found a 2014 Ultra Galaxy ( front badge still peeling!) In the touring section. Decided to go through a genuine process of buying it by checking out the bike ie what am I getting for my money. Firstly the group set looked a bit of a mish mash (ugly?) especially as my current bikes groupset is all from I group set.
Brake levers Tiagra. Was surprised to find that these are entry level.
Crank. Took a while to find out about this but it was from a set below even Tiagra and it's entry level spec.
Rear mech. For some reason Dawes has specified 105. Am wondering if that's a marketing choice?
Wheels. Alexrims. Salesperson told me its very much a budget brand and the wheels would cost about £60 retail for both.
Brakes standard shimano discs
Rear rack. Not Blackburn no lowriders included.
Generally what I found was a mass of entry and sub-entry level kit on what Dawes is flogging as its premium top of the range tourer. Apart from the 853 frame (£600 retail on its own) where the hell is £1800 worth bike??
My current bike once you factor in the frame cost difference would be £250 more expensive BUT for that £250 you'd get full Shimano Ultegra and a £600 wheelset.
Is Dawes taking the pee?
Just noticed on Dawes 2014 marketing for the Ulltra Galaxy " Together with 30 speed Shimano 105 gears" no mention of the mass of entry level Tiagra or sub-entry level crank!!!
Definitely NOT getting one but wondering about getting last years UG frame and specing myself with full Ultegra groupo what with it costing below £500.
Last edited by LondonBikeCommuter on 14 Sep 2014, 9:12am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: More Dawes bashing?
I think common agreement is that Dawes ultra galaxy's are over priced. Saying that I think judging thee components by the same requirements as for other road bikes is probably a bit disingenuous. They're specced for durability not weight or groupset level. For example 105 is specified as the 10 speed version is the only one Shimano officially recognise will take a larger cassette. You could fit a 9 speed mountain one but I do t think any manufacturer do that. Alex rims may be "budget" but they are strong, the crank is no griupset but one of the only triples Shimano do, etc. etc.. What you're actually seeing is the outcome of the major component manufacturers stuffing over anyone who doesn't want a 50/34 compact...
Re: More Dawes bashing?
On the crank, I believe components starting with 5 with 3 numbers are Deore level. So tiagra equivalent for mountain bike components. More than likely specced as the only trekking crank Shimano do. Deore is pretty standard in touring bikes.
As an aside spacycles.co.uk have a 2013 ultra galaxy for 1290 quid...
As an aside spacycles.co.uk have a 2013 ultra galaxy for 1290 quid...
Re: More Dawes bashing?
I once read somewhere (probably here) that tourers in general were pricy as they aren't a particularly well selling market so the prices are up'd to make up some difference. My own Dawes which retailed for £599 was equipped with an Acera rear mech, 2203 sti shifters and front mech, Truvative 5D chainset, no-name stem, bars, seatpost, rims, hubs (quando) bottom bracket, headset and rack. Orxy brakes were the highlight I think. Even the forks are hi-tensile steel.
Most of those parts served their purpose quite well and the headset, front mech, shifters, chainset and brakes are all that remain of the original parts. Everything else (except the forks) has been replaced over time for either getting the fit right or they just wore out.
Guessing, I'd say that level of componentry wouldn't be out of place on a £300 mountain bike.
Despite all this, I can honestly say I wouldn't swap it for the world as it's been an absolutely brilliant bike.
I looked at some other similarly priced touring bikes before deciding on this and they all seemed to have roughly the same spec so I don't think Dawes is the only one ripping off their customers.
Most of those parts served their purpose quite well and the headset, front mech, shifters, chainset and brakes are all that remain of the original parts. Everything else (except the forks) has been replaced over time for either getting the fit right or they just wore out.
Guessing, I'd say that level of componentry wouldn't be out of place on a £300 mountain bike.
Despite all this, I can honestly say I wouldn't swap it for the world as it's been an absolutely brilliant bike.
I looked at some other similarly priced touring bikes before deciding on this and they all seemed to have roughly the same spec so I don't think Dawes is the only one ripping off their customers.
Last edited by Vantage on 14 Sep 2014, 7:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
Re: More Dawes bashing?
I've had Tiagra cranks/levers etc. on my bike for a few years, and never once had any trouble with them, and my bike was a grand and a bit back then -a Ridley.
What's the problem with Tiagra stuff? Have people found it to be unreliable?
What's the problem with Tiagra stuff? Have people found it to be unreliable?
Re: More Dawes bashing?
Vantage wrote:I once read somewhere (probably here) that tourers in general were pricy as they aren't a particularly well selling market so the prices are up'd to make up some difference.......
We got a surprise in our LBS (James Chesterfield) looking for tourer/audax spec and they had nothing at all. 100s of other bikes £3k road bikes, hybrids, mountain etc but not a single out and out tourer.
My Dawes Galaxy Tour 2004 has been utterly brilliant, good value for money and still going strong. Everything original except rims and other consumables, sprockets etc.
Re: More Dawes bashing?
J e James has never really recognised that touring bikes exist.
Re: More Dawes bashing?
Not an expert , but not sure what you need top level groupsets for on a tourer as someone who does a bit of racing my understanding of the more expensive groupsets are they are lighter and they change better under power. In a race everybody sprints out of the corners - hard - so this is vital . Neither of these apply for touring you would not want to use a F1 engine on a family car it would break down after a few 100 miles
Re: More Dawes bashing?
As someone who used to tour and now mainly does racing and day rides , I got my tourer out the garage for the first time today in a long while - Bloody heavy (Thorn Club Tour) a good beast for doing everything and carrying lots of luggage but frankly unless you are doing say moving on unsupported touring , not really necessary these days
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- Posts: 238
- Joined: 21 Apr 2013, 4:10pm
- Location: Swindon
Re: More Dawes bashing?
DaveGos wrote:you would not want to use a F1 engine on a family car it would break down after a few 100 miles
I'm not calling for a Dura-Ace Ultra Galaxy but what would be wrong with full Ultegra or even full 105 versions... Dawes are after all charging £1800. Are these group sets considered unreliable? And if not what would make them unsuitable?
I ask in part because if I did build up an Ultra Galaxy frame I'd use full Ultegra apart from brakes and wheels.
Re: More Dawes bashing?
Exactly it. He talked as though touring/audaxing was a tiny minority activity long out of fashion. We felt like some sort of perverts!karlt wrote:J e James has never really recognised that touring bikes exist.
We ended up with Vernon Barker in Dronfield - a mine of information and very helpful. We haven't bought anything yet but he is top of the list at the mo.
http://www.vernonbarkercycles.co.uk/
Last edited by wearwell on 14 Sep 2014, 10:07pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: More Dawes bashing?
My Dawes 1-Down that I bought in 1999 (I think ) came with RSX groupset, not bottom of the range but not top and has been fine was £649 then compared to £599 for a Galaxy. Best bike I have ever had. I originally bought it on a whim as the YHA Adventure shop was giving a 20% discount so I got it for £520. The Dawes Galaxy at the time also had RSX I think
Re: More Dawes bashing?
LondonBikeCommuter wrote:DaveGos wrote:you would not want to use a F1 engine on a family car it would break down after a few 100 miles
I'm not calling for a Dura-Ace Ultra Galaxy but what would be wrong with full Ultegra or even full 105 versions... Dawes are after all charging £1800. Are these group sets considered unreliable? And if not what would make them unsuitable?
I ask in part because if I did build up an Ultra Galaxy frame I'd use full Ultegra apart from brakes and wheels.
Because current 105 and ultegra don't do triple shifters or triple cranks. Because current 105 and ultegra only have mid cage rear derailleurs which may support up to a cassette of 32 but only with a double up front. Shimano have in their wisdom removed triples from anything above tiagra so you just cannot do it.
Re: More Dawes bashing?
LondonBikeCommuter wrote:DaveGos wrote:you would not want to use a F1 engine on a family car it would break down after a few 100 miles
I'm not calling for a Dura-Ace Ultra Galaxy but what would be wrong with full Ultegra or even full 105 versions... Dawes are after all charging £1800. Are these group sets considered unreliable? And if not what would make them unsuitable?
I ask in part because if I did build up an Ultra Galaxy frame I'd use full Ultegra apart from brakes and wheels.
Ultegra is very high end and expensive , why do you want that, I race on a 7 year old 105 and its fine.
These are all primarily designed for road bikes with fairly close ratios , what kind of shifters do you want and are yu planning on using a triple of compact double , They all have an effect on what is available. Also a modern lets say 105 is better than an ultegra from some years ago. Also how many gears as the modern stuff has thinner chains for 11 and 10 speed blocks , which does not really fit in with the concept of a do everything reliable war horse. Often MTB equipment can be better for a touring bike ( if it will work with drops) than road stuff - Gives more suitable gear ratios
Seems the marketeers have got to you and you are more bothered about where the equipment is in the Shimano hierarchy rather than its functionality
Re: More Dawes bashing?
I would ignore the £1800 tag. Dawes are one of those brands where you can always save massively on their RRP