Pulled Over By The Police

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Jughead
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Pulled Over By The Police

Post by Jughead »

Just after nine so had a front light, rear light and flashing lights on my rucksack. They told me that with oncoming traffic headlights I was a danger. They asked why I wasn't wearing a hi-viz vest and a helmet. Told them I have cycled for some 40+ years without either and wasnt going to start now. They told me to get off the road and cycle on the pavement as I was a danger to other road users.
I did as they instructed. Just as well as they had pulled into a side street a couple of hundred yards ahead to spy on me. Must have been a slow night for them. So helmets and hi-viz are not legal requirements. Can the police force you wear them if they deem you are a danger.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Nearly 40 years ago I was cycling home at dusk, I probably should of had lights but because I had on a Bright orange rainsuit down to my feet I thought I was seeable.

A jam sandwich came along side and told me to get of and walk, which I did.
200 yards down the road I considered getting back on, I did not but as I passed a junction I spyed the couple of jam sandwich ocupants in the dark, I passed they drove off.

It appears it runs in the family as your guys are their offspring :roll:

The emphasis appears to be by the media to make cyclist more safe they must be trained.

No amount of training will keep you safe from drivers today.

Will be interesting to see if you cycled on pavement and round the corner you were stopped by bobby on the beat and wanted to fine you :?:
What defence would you offer...............
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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661-Pete
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by 661-Pete »

It seems to me, the only thing you were a danger to, was their quotas. Or to be more accurate, there was a danger to their quotas in not stopping you... :twisted:

See also this thread on the same topic.
Last edited by 661-Pete on 13 Sep 2014, 9:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gaz
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by gaz »

You were lucky not to get a £30 fine :wink: : viewtopic.php?f=41&t=88351

Advice from the police to wear a helmet is covered here: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=76886 & viewtopic.php?f=41&t=81622

:|
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by [XAP]Bob »

So how exactly were you a danger to other road users?

And are the police allowed to instruct you to break the law?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Bicycler
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by Bicycler »

I'm sure they have the power to direct traffic which (amongst other things) can include directing traffic contraflow down one way streets and I'm sure it would also include instructing cycles to use the pavement.

Jughead, I believe that this is serious enough to make a complaint about. I'm sure that it would be found that the officers hadn't broken any rules by advising you to wear helmets and hi-vis because that is also the Highway Code advice but it might result in instructions being passed down not to pull over any more perfectly road legal cyclists
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
I would have probably already have been arrested.

Is that upholding the law..............
Its bending the law to their whim..............

I do believe the police of today are well instructed what not to get involved with and when no crime appears they start to wonder.

It must be remembered that police are recruited from the general public and thus you will get what we have today in the police too.

If a member of police can receive so many complaints they are forced to leave / sacked ? then they get to work for police as a civilian, eventualy being re-employed by police, then they are responsible for actions that lead to the death of a member of public, they are taken to court but get off......what does that say to you about the integrity of our police force today :?:
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
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Cunobelin
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by Cunobelin »

I have had this discussion, then asked for a fixed penalty...

That rather put the policeman on their back foot.

He said that he wished to give me a verbal warning, and when I explained that I required the ticket so I could appeal as he was in the wrong, he was even more reluctant.

In the end I simply checked that he recorded the fact that he had stopped me giving time and date

A short letter later I had an apology that I should not have been stopped, had done nothing wrong and that the officer had been made aware of his error

Funny thing is that on that occasion he could have done me for the lights as I had left the RVLR compliant front light charging on my desk and only had the (illegal) Magicshine on the front
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Bicycler wrote:I'm sure they have the power to direct traffic which (amongst other things) can include directing traffic contraflow down one way streets and I'm sure it would also include instructing cycles to use the pavement.

Jughead, I believe that this is serious enough to make a complaint about. I'm sure that it would be found that the officers hadn't broken any rules by advising you to wear helmets and hi-vis because that is also the Highway Code advice but it might result in instructions being passed down not to pull over any more perfectly road legal cyclists

so if found on the pavement you merely claim that you were instructed by another officer?

temporary directions are one thing, but the situation doesn't change day to day, so presumably it's a permanent instruction.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
TonyR
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by TonyR »

Cunobelin wrote:I have had this discussion, then asked for a fixed penalty...

That rather put the policeman on their back foot.

He said that he wished to give me a verbal warning, and when I explained that I required the ticket so I could appeal as he was in the wrong, he was even more reluctant.

In the end I simply checked that he recorded the fact that he had stopped me giving time and date

A short letter later I had an apology that I should not have been stopped, had done nothing wrong and that the officer had been made aware of his error


Reminds me of this wonderful story from a police officer on uk.rec.cycling a few years ago:

Whilst indulging in a spot of the obligatory DIY today I discovered I
needed few more bits and bobs, blowtorch, flux, joints etc...
I could not get the car out for a 'quick' 6 miles to the shop as the
community skip lorry was doing its thing so I took the jolly old - new -
racing bike for a spin.
Flashing along and wanting to turn right over the bridge system I
crossed the four lanes to take up position for the giratory road system.
Pulled up at the lights and waited, not bothered by and not bothering
anybody when up pulls a plod car, the window goes down on the drivers
side and a head pops out.

Young Plod - "Nice bike you've got there"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - "Going out for a ride"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - "Where you going"
Me - "Over there"
Young Plod - "You know your in the wrong lane"
Me - "Hows that"
Young Plod - "You should be over there" - Points to the near side lane
four over.
Me - "Can't turn right from there"
Young Plod - "It's dangerous to ride your bike in this lane"
Me - "Be a lot more dangerous turning right from over there"
Young Plod - "Is it yours"
Me - "What"
Young Plod - "The bike"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - "Your not wearing cycling clothing"
Me - "No" - wearing old combats, boots and sweatshirt, very dirty as had
been crawling around under the floorboards.
Young Plod - "Your not wearing a helmet either"
Me - "No"
Young Plod - "Just pull up over there for me"
Me - "Why"
Young plod - "I want a word with you"
Me - "What for"
Young Plod - "Don't argue"
Me - "About what"

At this point young plod had had enough and tripped his blue lights...

Young Plod - "get off"
Me - Feeling a bit like finding out how far he would go - "Have I done
something wrong"
Young Plod - "Like I said your in the wrong lane"
Me - "Is that a road traffic offence" - he should have picked up on this!
Young Plod - "Yes"
Me - "Oh" - Get off bike

Young Plod then gets out of car and tells me how he could do me for
dangerous cycling and how I should be wearing a cycle helmet.

Me - "Is that the law then - cycle helmets"
Young Plod - "No but its a lot safer"
Me - "There's never been a study that proved that you know"
Young Plod - "I cycle and I always wear a helmet"
Me - "That's your choice"
Young Plod - "Your not taking this very seriously"
Me - "Aren't I"
Young Plod - "Right - Lets see what you think about getting a fine for
dangerous cycling"
Me - "Your going to give me a ticket"
Young Plod - "I might if you continue like this"
Me - "Am I riding dangerously then"
Young Plod - "Yes"
Me - "How"
Young Plod - "You shouldn't be in the outside lane you should turn right
from the nearside kerb"
Me - "Oh, does it say that in the Road Traffic Act then"
Young Plod - "Do you have any ID"
Me - "What for"
Young Plod - "Because I asked you"
Me - "Are you going to give me a ticket then"
Young Plod - "I've had enough of this what's your name"
Me - "******"
Young Plod - "What do you do for a living"
Me - "I train people"
Young Plod - "Who for"
Me - "The police"
Young Plod - "Oh"
Me - "Does that make a difference"
Young Plod - "Err"
Me - "Do I get a copy of a stop form then"
Young Plod -"Err"
Me - "I really think I should get a copy of a stop form"
Young Plod -"Do we need to do that"
Me - "Yes"
Young Plod - writes out stop form - Name?
Me - "Sgt..."
Young Plod - Finishes the stop form - hands it to me
Me - "Next time you think of abusing your powers you might like to think
about who your talking to first"
Young Plod -"Yes Sarge"
Me - "Do I need to write to your skipper about this"
Young Plod - "No Sarge"
Me - "You think you've learnt your lesson then"
Young Plod - "Yes Sarge"
Me - "You think I should let you get away with this then"
Young Plod - "I think I made a mistake"
Me - "I think you did"
Young Plod - "Are you going to write to my Sergeant then Sarge"
Me - "I think he needs to know, don't you"
Me - "I'll tell you what, You tell your Sergeant and get them to call me
later"
Young Plod - "Yes Sergeant"
Me - "Be sure you do - or I will be writing officially"
Young Plod - "Yes Sergeant" Gets back in car and drives off.

Had chat with female sergeant later - turns out he did tell her and got
bulled for his actions.

Obviously the above is not a word for word but it's pretty close.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Nice story TonyR.
But you are in a (well trained in the right questions to ask and answer) position to be able to do that we the public are not :!:

So you have just confirmed that there are some right P*%$£" in the force, thanks, I have two officers in the force in my family and they dont apart from wearing a uniform have much moral standing or integrity, I.M.H.O.

Their conversation normaly goes along the lines of an amusing storys like yours.

Both dog handlers, one turns up with dog for scenting a trail of offender and tells us that all and sundry have walked all over the site so his job is impossible, All and sundry is fellow workers :?

Another family copper plays rugger delights in telling us about a drunk who would'nt go quite into the car so he slams the door on his leg, broken leg, ha ha ha :?

All as I heard it down the pub with them showing us what their jobs for......................normal people.............or maybe twisted........paid by us to abuse us..............
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Bicycler
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by Bicycler »

[XAP]Bob wrote:so if found on the pavement you merely claim that you were instructed by another officer?

temporary directions are one thing, but the situation doesn't change day to day, so presumably it's a permanent instruction.

If you could give the time and place where you were stopped I'm sure your claim could be checked out.

I would think it could only apply there and then. Temporary discretion rather than ability to permanently change the rules of the road for a user.
Vorpal
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by Vorpal »

Well... maybe. But the police power to direct traffic should not be used to remove a road user who is there legally. Directing a cyclist to use the footpath should only be done to avoid another hazard, such as a road blockage or something. Under normal circumstances it is illegal to ride on the pavement, and I think that it is significant that the OP was actually directed to do something illegal.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Vorpal wrote:Well... maybe. But the police power to direct traffic should not be used to remove a road user who is there legally. Directing a cyclist to use the footpath should only be done to avoid another hazard, such as a road blockage or something. Under normal circumstances it is illegal to ride on the pavement, and I think that it is significant that the OP was actually directed to do something illegal.

But the OP was told that they " I was a danger to other road users" so whats to do :?:

Complaint is the only option.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Bicycler
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Re: Pulled Over By The Police

Post by Bicycler »

Vorpal wrote:Well... maybe. But the police power to direct traffic should not be used to remove a road user who is there legally. Directing a cyclist to use the footpath should only be done to avoid another hazard, such as a road blockage or something. Under normal circumstances it is illegal to ride on the pavement, and I think that it is significant that the OP was actually directed to do something illegal.

I was merely stating that the police probably have the power to direct and authorise cyclists to use a pavement in a particular place. I don't doubt that this was a misuse of that power and that the OP really should complain. The normal illegality of pavement riding might be significant to that complaint.
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