Another A38 Accident

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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BeeKeeper
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by BeeKeeper »

Very sad to hear about his death. He was a local man so would have known about the alternative route and how inefficient it is compared to the direct route he was on.
I think I can understand the CTCs dillema in that to actively advise cyclists to avoid roads like this would smack of throwing in the towel in their campaign for better provision for cyclists. Sadly, this death sends it's own message. Stay off this road.
reohn2
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by reohn2 »

BeeKeeper wrote:.............. Sadly, this death sends it's own message. Stay off this road.


And that we live in a society that doesn't give a toss for 'lower class' road users,as it doesn't provide viable alternatives for them.Whilst at the same time giving lip service to 'promoting' cycling and a healthy lifestyle.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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TonyR
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by TonyR »

BeeKeeper wrote:Sadly, this death sends it's own message. Stay off this road.


And the deaths of cyclists on minor roads and in towns? What message does that send? Stay off the roads altogether?

Sad as these incidents are, they are extremely rare. There are many other things we do in daily life that are far more likely to kill you. The danger is we start to engender (and probably already have) a Fear of Roads for what is an extremely safe activity. The real issues with riding on these sorts of roads is how threatening they can feel, not how threatening they are.
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by Phil Fouracre »

TonyR, perfectly put. I ride our local busy main road, and most direct route, regularly, without any problems. I'm amazed by the number of 'cyclists' who say that they would never do that and that they think I am mad to do so. They can't believe I do it in tee shirt and shorts, and no plastic hat! Yes it can feel threatening very occasionally, but, it's still a great ride. Just as a secondary point, being the main road in an area of low lying ground, it is on a ridge with amazing views. If I chose the circuitous, 'safer' route I would see nothing at all!!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
reohn2
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by reohn2 »

TonyR wrote:.......... The danger is we start to engender (and probably already have) a Fear of Roads for what is an extremely safe activity. The real issues with riding on these sorts of roads is how threatening they can feel, not how threatening they are.


That's the whole problem and the main stumbling block to keeping people from cycling more,if they feel threatened and intimidated then cycling isn't pleasurable so why do it?
Like it or not but we live in an aggressive society,which no more evident than when using the roads, especially from a position of 'weakness' ie; small or vulnerable vehicle.
The bullies are all to evident,care for others is lacking,and the penalties paltry for serious road crime.
It's a societal problem where might is right,even when it's blatantly wrong.

This poor chap was taken out in circumstances that should never have been if society cared enough.
There'll be people sat discussing this case along the lines of how bad it all is and 'well I feel sorry for his family but what was he doing on such a dangerous road?' or 'why was he allowed to cycle on such a busy road like that?'
And not once asking,what was his alternative? or what was the driver doing to run into him? or why was there not better provision for cycling on such a fast and busy road?
Victim blaming is alive and well in UK society.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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MrsHJ
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by MrsHJ »

DevonDamo wrote:
MrsHJ wrote:astonishing?


TonyR's point is cleverly made. The Women's Institute is a representative organisation for women. The CTC is the same for cyclists. Walking alone at night may be regarded as a 'right' for women, but it may be unwise for the WI to promote it, given the risks involved. The same may be said with regards to any organisation promoting cycling on high speed roads.


It felt sexist to me. I quite frequently get the red haze rise when either womens issues or cyclists issues are dissed so it did not feel an appropriate comment, sarcasm at best, particularly in the light of a thread about a tragic event.
Flinders
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by Flinders »

A dual carriageway ought to be one of the safest places to cycle. Any faster traffic can overtake at any time and give a wide berth.
There is no reason at all why a dual carriageway ought to be less safe than any other road, aside, of course, from dangerous and (often) illegal driving.
Flinders
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by Flinders »

DevonDamo wrote:Okay - I got that one wrong! But I had my reasons though: If I were a head honcho in the women's institute, I wouldn't dream of encouraging women to walk alone at night. Similarly, if I were influential in the cycling world, I'd never in a million years suggest it's a good idea to go out on dual carriageways. In both cases, such advice would be likely to result in harm.

Although it may offend our sense of rights and equality, some activities are just dangerous, and probably always will be. It may be morally correct to aim our ire at the miscreants who attack women or micro-sleep their lorries over innocent cyclists, but that doesn't help the deceased or their loved ones. If it's that dangerous, swallow your sense of injustice and just don't do it.

Campaigning for good, segregated cycle paths is a sensible line to take. Campaigning against poor driving in order to make fast roads safe for cyclists is straying into King Canute territory.

Why on earth would you not 'encourage' women to walk alone at night if you wee in the WI? In order to get to WI meetings women will often have to walk alone at night.
The fewer people who walk at night,the more dangerous an area gets.

Incidentally, the largest group of people that suffer from violence is, in fact, young men.
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Erudin
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by Erudin »

Fatal incidents can happen anywhere. I often cycle on the old A30 that runs from Launceston to Okehampton and I consider it a "safe" road.

Tom Brady was killed at Sprytown Cross near Lifton (the turn-off for Roadford Lake), this is a wide road with excellent visibility.

From: http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/news/devon_news/10614316.Cyclist_dies_in_Devon_collision/

"A police spokesman said: "The pedal cyclist was emerging from the Give Way line on the northern arm of the crossroads (left side of pic) from the direction of Broadwoodwidger with the apparent intention of turning right towards Lifton, and the Citroen Saxo, was heading in a south westerly direction (from top of pic) on the main road from Lewdown towards Lifton.

"The rider of the pedal cycle, a local man in his 40's sustained fatal injuries and was pronounced deceased at the scene.

"The driver of the Citroen Saxo was treated by Ambulance personnel at the scene and then released."
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Mick F
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by Mick F »

Me and Ferrit Worrier cycled up through there only last Sunday, and I often use that road ............ maybe a couple of times a month. I've also come out of the Broadwoodwidger turn, and have come out of the opposite road on a number of occasions from Coryton/Chillaton.

Never had a problem on the Old A30. I reckon it's the best cycling road I've ever cycled on and it's usually as empty as the picture from Google Maps. It's one of Devon's best kept secrets.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=portga ... 73.72,,0,0
Mick F. Cornwall
reohn2
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by reohn2 »

Flinders wrote:A dual carriageway ought to be one of the safest places to cycle. Any faster traffic can overtake at any time and give a wide berth.
There is no reason at all why a dual carriageway ought to be less safe than any other road, aside, of course, from dangerous and (often) illegal driving.


Which is all too evident and allowed to continue by a lack of effective policing,the same reason women are vulnerable walking on their own in the hours of darkness.
Cheshire Police's investigation into sexual assault and rape was highlighted only last week in local news as appalling and that around 1/3 of reported incidents weren't even taken seriously.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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jezer
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by jezer »

The news reports this week of the police effectively giving up on certain types of crime was very worrying. It seems we have to investigate offences ourselves. Does that mean cyclists and other vulnerable road users can use tazers and similar means to catch offenders? No I thought not.
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reohn2
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by reohn2 »

jezer wrote:The news reports this week of the police effectively giving up on certain types of crime was very worrying. It seems we have to investigate offences ourselves...........


Which is telling us directly that they're unable to do their job,you can only do so much with the resources you have.
This government has degreed that we can't afford a police force with enough resources to carry out effective policing.
The result is a gangsters paradise.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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jezer
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by jezer »

There were certainly plenty of resources to protect the world leaders in Wales. Have you seen the clip of the Stonehenge visit? The motorcade passed near here, but I think the US president went by helicopter, accompanied by two jets.
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TonyR
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Re: Another A38 Accident

Post by TonyR »

jezer wrote:....... by helicopter, accompanied by two jets.


That would have been interesting. I would imagine the stall speed of the jets must be pretty close to the maximum speed of the helicopter.
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