Can I have a moan?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.

Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby thirdcrank » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:51 pm

kwackers wrote:I remember a slightly amusing incident a year or so ago where someone parked their car on another persons drive near an airport and went on their holidays.
The not unreasonably miffed home owner phoned the police but it turned out there was nothing they could do, not only that but they couldn't easily remove the car without being liable for any costs and/or mishaps. They also couldn't clamp it or charge for the parking!
I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when the owners turned up to collect it...

The moral of the story is there's lots of free parking around, you just need a bit of the old 'bare face' to take advantage... :lol:


I found this link while looking for something else. A DIY system for charging fly-parkers. Perhaps surprisingly for a cycling forum we've had a couple of threads about this happening on places like supermarket car parks. "They can't touch you for it!....Oh, yes they can."

http://flashpark.co.uk/
Gang warily.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby Mark1978 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:13 pm

thirdcrank wrote:
kwackers wrote:I remember a slightly amusing incident a year or so ago where someone parked their car on another persons drive near an airport and went on their holidays.
The not unreasonably miffed home owner phoned the police but it turned out there was nothing they could do, not only that but they couldn't easily remove the car without being liable for any costs and/or mishaps. They also couldn't clamp it or charge for the parking!
I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when the owners turned up to collect it...

The moral of the story is there's lots of free parking around, you just need a bit of the old 'bare face' to take advantage... :lol:


I found this link while looking for something else. A DIY system for charging fly-parkers. Perhaps surprisingly for a cycling forum we've had a couple of threads about this happening on places like supermarket car parks. "They can't touch you for it!....Oh, yes they can."

http://flashpark.co.uk/


For every £765 the company receives, you get £15 - great deal!
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby kwackers » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:17 pm

thirdcrank wrote:I found this link while looking for something else. A DIY system for charging fly-parkers. Perhaps surprisingly for a cycling forum we've had a couple of threads about this happening on places like supermarket car parks. "They can't touch you for it!....Oh, yes they can."

http://flashpark.co.uk/

The problem with this is that the 'illegal' parker can simply ignore the charge and then you'd be back to taking them to court.
So you can sue for your losses - but what are they? If someone parks on your drive how do you quantify those losses? The courts might award you a few quid (or nothing) but it could all backfire and end up costing you real dosh.
Reminds me of the neighbourly disputes that often end up bankrupting both parties and making the lawyers a few quid. Sometimes the principle really isn't worth it.

So in theory, yes they can touch you but in practise I suspect it isn't worth their while.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby beardy » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:22 pm

I would have thought the Flashpark people do all the court chasing for you, that is how they earn their money.

You dont take them to court for damages, you take them for breach of contract.

They have accepted the contract offered in the big prominently displayed sign to park on your property for the fee of £85 by the act of parking there, if they dont pay after taking the service offered then they are in breach of contract.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby Mark1978 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:29 pm

beardy wrote:
They have accepted the contract offered in the big prominently displayed sign to park on your property for the fee of £85 by the act of parking there, if they dont pay after taking the service offered then they are in breach of contract.


At the risk of making this a parking thread. Yes; they are in breach of contract, you can sue them for that breach. But; the damages that are awarded are what the court determines are your reasonable losses, not what you or the parking company wants them to be.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby kwackers » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:29 pm

beardy wrote:I would have thought the Flashpark people do all the court chasing for you, that is how they earn their money.

You dont take them to court for damages, you take them for breach of contract.

They have accepted the contract offered in the big prominently displayed sign to park on your property for the fee of £85 by the act of parking there, if they dont pay after taking the service offered then they are in breach of contract.

The Flashpark people make their money by *hoping* that people pay up. Bet they've never taken anyone to court.

As I understand the current regs the 'contract' is meaningless. It's all based on trespass laws and the courts will only award damages (and nothing like the amount stated on the 'contract').
That's why the general advice is to throw away anything from private parking companies. They never sue because even if they win they get so little it isn't worth their while. They occasionally (rarely) prosecute to show that they're 'on the ball' but when you look at the figures people are fined it's nearly all costs.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby Bicycler » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:30 pm

Also beware: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/34
34 - Prohibition of driving mechanically propelled vehicles elsewhere than on roads.
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, if without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle—
(a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road
he is guilty of an offence.

(3)It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.

So not most driveways but if driving onto and parking without permission on land further from a road you are commiting a criminal offence.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby beardy » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:33 pm

I thought the reason why the cases failed was because the DVLA only shows who keeps the vehicle not who was driving it. So all you have to do is say "show that it was me who parked it there".
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby Bicycler » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:34 pm

Again though, most of this comes down to having a bit of respect for others and not being a selfish prat rather than the ease with which you can be punished for your selfish prattery.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby beardy » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:37 pm

But that cuts no ice with selfish prats, they need the big stick to be wielded to make them show any respect.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby kwackers » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:37 pm

beardy wrote:I thought the reason why the cases failed was because the DVLA only shows who keeps the vehicle not who was driving it. So all you have to do is say "show that it was me who parked it there".

In which case it should be quite easy since most are caught on camera (as it were).

TBH, it's a while since I looked. I got a parking fine in the post for parking my car somewhere I never do at a time it must have been sat on my drive.
I did a bit of research and binned it. (I suspect it was just a dodgy company tbh, although they make it all look very legit and scary!)
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby beardy » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:43 pm

In the company video they show the landowner photographing an empty car without any driver present.

If contesting the case in the county court you would have to remember/be informed enough to contest the amount of compensation as well as (or instead of) the liability.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby TonyR » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:45 pm

beardy wrote:You dont take them to court for damages, you take them for breach of contract.

They have accepted the contract offered in the big prominently displayed sign to park on your property for the fee of £85 by the act of parking there, if they dont pay after taking the service offered then they are in breach of contract.


Except that its subject to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999: any parking charges have to be reasonable for the services provided and that would be judged by what the local market price was for equivalent service level parking. If I got such a notice I would ignore it. They would then have to take me to Court where it would be assigned to the Small Claims track. Worst case I end up paying the parking fee and they end up having to swallow their costs of taking me to Court. Likely case they might get a fiver and still have to swallow their costs. What they are relying on is people not knowing that and paying up.
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby Mark1978 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:47 pm

We got a 'charge' for parking in an Aldi car park for too long - reason being my wife had to rush our daughter to hospital an an ambulance! Even then we were only half an hour over.
Appealed it to Parking Eye and then declined it and sent it to the ombudsman but we haven't heard anything for weeks so I'm assuming it's finished with!
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Re: Can I have a moan?

Postby BigFoz » Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:25 pm

In the case of the car dumped on a driveway, what would happen if you decided you no longer wanted a driveway and bricked it off from the road before said tool returned from holiday?
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