Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

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al_yrpal
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Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by al_yrpal »

I was cycling along a country lane about 1/2 a mile from my home after a 2 hour road ride, and doing about 15 mph. Suddenly I was tipped over to the right by something. I believe it was a sort of tram line at the edge of this filled pothole, I was going slightly away from the edge of the road having just rounded a bend and the groove steered the bike to the left toppling me off. I landed on my right elbow and shoulder and the handlebars on my Mercian twisted to the right leaving the front wheel straight ahead and I and the bike slid along the road smashing the Ergo levers bending the handlebars and lacerating my arm, Luckily there were no cars about, but as I was getting to my feet someone drove by without stopping. My arm was bleeding heavily and lots of blood was streaming down my legs. legs. I staggered to a nearby house and they bandaged my arm and I managed to get home riding with no brakes or gears. I was driven to the local A & E where 7 stitches were put in my arm.

I almost cannot believe that it was the groove in the road that tipped me off and I don't really believe I will get anywhere with the County Council, the CTCs solicitors say that there is no case since this defect in the road is not an actionable defect. However, in the last 8 years since I started cycling again I have never fallen off like this. I was so surprised to be tipped off and looking back at the road surface it even hard for me to believe it.

The tramline at the edge of the filled pothole
ImageP1010613 by Alyrpal, on Flickr

Handlebar damage
ImageP1010626 by Alyrpal, on Flickr

This accident occurred on 24/7 and since then I have been in continuous pain, unable to sleep properly, losing all power in my fingers hand and arm with a frozen right shoulder. I think I was lucky not to break my shoulder blade.

The damage to the Mercian means new bars, the 9 speed Veloce Ergo levers are a write off, both wheels are buckled and there is superficial damage to the right pedal and saddle, the LBS came up with a quote of £582 to repair it. Since my bike was insured with Aviva under my house insurance they are paying up, less my £200 excess - I am very impressed with that! Unfortunately the Ergos are no longer available in 9 speed so if I fit 10 speeds (only available in black) that means a new cassette and chain too. I think I can live with a scratched pedal and saddle. They suggest replacing the front rim but I think the scratches on the edge of it can be easily polished out.

I am wondering if I should pursue the County Council through the small claims court. I have ridden along this road literally hundreds of times and don't really accept that I was entirely at fault. The solicitors say that a judge wouldn't allow this claim because the road defect isn't actionable and that's why they wont pursue it. Maybe the road defect wouldn't damage a cars alloy wheel, but it definitely damaged this cyclist!

What would you do?

And...

Has anyone got any 9 speed Campagnolo Ergo levers lurking in their bits box?

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
thirdcrank
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by thirdcrank »

This is not so much about the type of hole, as a Highway Authority's special defence for claims in negligence.

My own (humble) impression is that in circumstance such as yours, claims have been successful when the highway authority has been shown to have had some prior knowledge eg repeated reinstatements of the same defect. I count for nothing and my normal advice is to consult a lawyer, which you have already done. The only other thing I can suggest is consider contacting Martin Porter QC the Cycling Silk, for his advice, which he offers at the foot of this entry on his blog.

http://martinporterqc.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... awyer.html

I think it's also worth noting in this context that he has understandably taken some interest in cases involving cyclists and road defects, which is reflected in other entries on his blog.

You can do some detective work of your own eg check to see if the defect has previously been reported on the various sites such as fillthathole.

If your lawyer didn't explain the "special defence" here it is:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/58
rjb
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by rjb »

Get well soon. And while you will feel apprehensive for a while don't let that put you off. I was nervous in the spring when i restarted cycling after breaking my pelvis in the winter but now i am back to normal. :D
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
reohn2
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by reohn2 »

Sorry to here about your incident I hope you get well soon.
A say incident as it's not an accident,but negligence on the part of relaxed laws and standards of councils under the auspices of not having enough funding to repair the roads properly,and as a result you're on a looser,sadly.
I also find it infuriating that for a ha'path of tar such 'boats' or trench edges are left for the frost and rain to permeate into and then crack open it up later or that contractors aren't made(by contractual clause) to make good initial subsidence/settlement after digging up roads,utility contractors being the worst culprits,it's a national disgrace :evil: :evil: :evil: .
FWIW there are roads just like that in the photo and far,far worse,around my neck of the woods.
Not wanting to push this,but since going to wider tyres and lower TP's I find they handle such poor linear cracks and deformities far better than narrower HP tyres.
Anyway get well soon and I hope it doesn't limit the enjoyment of your cycling too much.
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barrym
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by barrym »

Hmm, not sure about CTCs stance. Certainly from my motorcycling days I can clearly recall riders successfully pursuing the local authority when they had fallen foul of overbanding that was not correct. Too wide, or not flush with road surface etc. There are I believe standards set for how repairs are to be done so that these sort of problems don't occur. I'd seek a second opinion.

Barry
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661-Pete
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by 661-Pete »

Ouch! ouch! - sorry to hear about the off and GWS! Looking at your photos, it doesn't look at all unusual to me, that surface, I'm afraid, I pass stretches of road surface like that every day: so your chances of redress from the Council are probably non-existent. But perhaps you could get photos of the surface from a different viewpoint, at a different time of day when there's a good cross-light?

I may have one 9-speed ergo lurking in my garage somewhere, not sure what condition it's in, nor whether it's the left or the right. It came off my son's old bike (since dismantled), I remember that one of the ergos was broken but the other was OK. I'll have a look around.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by thirdcrank »

People are sometimes successful in these claims and we've had threads from time to time with links to media reports that some highway authorities shell out more in compo than they spend on repairs.

Highway authorities have a duty to maintain roads but they have that special defence against compo claims which means that a complainant has more to prove. I suspect that anybody trying a DIY job, unless they could unearth damning evidence of prior knowledge and a decision to ignore the dangers, would be unlikely to get past the standard fob-off sent out by the office junior on work experience.

In one of the recently reported cases, highway authority lawyers unsuccessfully tried to extend the interpretation of that special defence to include budgetary constraints but they failed.
skicat
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by skicat »

Sorry to hear about your incident. I agree that the road defect doesn't look too dangerous, but as you've proven, it can be deceptive. Are you able to tell us where the road is? (purely for selfish reasons I might add - I think some of our riding territory overlaps, and I'd hate to fall foul of the same patch. In fact I was out in the Chilterns today).
The hurrier I go, the behinder I get
thirdcrank
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by thirdcrank »

I didn't comment on the actual defect pictured because I know from experience how bad something like that can be. Going back to when I was still commuting to work, mid 1990's, which was at the time when loads of trenches were being put in for cable television etc, we had a groove just like that in the middle of Gildersome. Having narrowly avoided a fall like yours, I tried to remember to avoid it. Not necessarily easy when riding home in the dark with what used to pass for cycle lamps. The whole road was eventually resurfaced and not a moment too soon.
irc
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by irc »

Sorry about your crash. I've no experience of claiming from councils but I suspect you will be out of luck unless this had been reported. If it has been reported and the council decided it wasn't bad enough to warrant a repair then this case found via google may be of interest. Though from your photo it's hard to see how bad the tramline is.


Similarly a 1m-long hardened concrete spillage with a leading edge of up to 2.5cms, in the middle of the road, was a danger because it was “reasonably foreseeable that a cyclist, coming into contact with it, would lose control of his bicycle, fall off and be injured”. (Wilkinson v City of York Council [2011] EWCA Civ 207 at 6, 30; Thomas v Warwickshire CC, above, at 75, 81)


http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/10/10/poth ... cling-law/


So if a cyclist had already reported this defect ......
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al_yrpal
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by al_yrpal »

Thanks everybody for your kind comments and suggestions. I have emailed Martin to see whether he has an opinion. The incident took place in Kidmore Lane Sonning Common about 100metres from tbe first property in Sonning Common.

Its interesting to note that earlier that morning I had inflated my 23mm front tyre with a CO2 bottle for the first time ever, it was rock hard. I usually hand pump my tyres to about 90psi. Its very true that wider softer tyres handle this sort of defect better.

I have been out on my other bike for a couple of 10 mile rides, I cannot put any weight yet on my right arm yet but it does help me steer. I am being very cautious

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Bicycler
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by Bicycler »

Al, I wish you a speedy recovery.
al_yrpal wrote:I almost cannot believe that it was the groove in the road that tipped me off

I think this is the most pertinent remark in your initial post. As Thirdcrank has suggested, negligence claims against the Council must prove that they were aware or should reasonably have been aware of a problem. If you struggle to believe that it caused your off and as an experienced cyclist did not see it as a particular hazard prior to your crash it would be hard to argue that the Council ought to have flagged it up. If, as the CTC legal advice suggests, it wouldn't have been of sufficient magnitude for action to be taken anyway if it had been brought to their attention (and I assume there is some agreed standard on what is and isn't) then it would seem an uphill struggle to prove that they have been negligent.
mercalia
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by mercalia »

sorry to hear about your accident but I would have thought that type of road repair is quite common? The first picture I cant see any tramline other just a break in the repair in direction of travel? Just your bad luck your tyre got caught in one. DO you look at the state of the road ahead? London roads are full of cracks and bad repairs worse than that & it is second nature to look ahead at the road. Out side a new building development near I live where the road had been just been resurfaced ( nice ) the builders had clearly needed to dig up the road to lay some thing or other and now in places there are deep dips where the patchs are sinking and are about the curvature of a wheel. ( very bad )
Ayesha
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by Ayesha »

IIRC, a change in road or path surface, such as an out-of-place paving slab or edge of a road workings, has to be greater than 1” for the local authority to place signage or repair it.

Road and path surface fluctuations of less than 1” is up to the individual to exercise ‘self care’.
reohn2
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Re: Fell off on a sort of tramline - advice please?

Post by reohn2 »

Ayesha wrote:IIRC, a change in road or path surface, such as an out-of-place paving slab or edge of a road workings, has to be greater than 1” for the local authority to place signage or repair it.

Road and path surface fluctuations of less than 1” is up to the individual to exercise ‘self care’.

Well around our way the council isn't working to the same tolerances as yours,it's more like 6".
In fact some potholes are so bad the best signage they could use would 'rope needed'
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