'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

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'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby pedaller » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:20 pm

Until recently, I understood that the blue rectangular road sign which says 'Cyclists Dismount' meant that cyclists were advised to do this. On page 36 of the booklet 'Know Your Traffic Signs', published by the DoT, there is no mention of it being advisory; indeed it says 'Pedal cyclists to dismount at end of or break in,a cycle lane, track or route.

Would I be breaking the law if I failed to dismount? These signs are most irritating, especially when they are used on a cycle path and installed at every junction.
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby 661-Pete » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:19 pm

They are certainly not obligatory. As I understand it, all rectangular road signs are advisory only.
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Bicycler » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:52 pm

They are only advisory, though obviously the intention is that you do as instructed. Obviously we don't because such signs have been ridiculously overused. Ignoring this advice could potentially provide some supporting evidence in a prosecution for careless/inconsiderate/dangerous cycling if you were to severely injure someone whilst riding where advised to dismount. But no, you are not committing an offence just by ignoring them.
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby mjr » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:56 pm

No, they're not obligatory. They're also usually stupid - because a pushed cycle is wider and less stable than one ridden, even at wobbly low speed, which inconveniences anyone else using the space more - and discriminatory, because they humiliate disabled people who struggle to get on/off and push adapted cycles.
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby TonyR » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:30 pm

They're nothing more than a CYA by the planners so if you do get knocked off crossing beyond the sign they can deny liability. Other than that they have no importance and can be safely ignored.
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby beardy » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:37 pm

Just once in a while they are there for your protection, like a sudden drop (steps) ahead or a low bridge which will knock you out or some treacherous surface.

Which is what they were supposed to be used for, to warn of unavoidable hazards that if you didnt go through them would give an excessive detour. These are much, much rarer than the normal use of rendering you into a pedestrian for the planners' convenience.
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby 661-Pete » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:49 pm

TBH, there's only one sign that road authorities need to use, if they want to order cyclists to dismount. This one, which is obligatory:
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Cunobelin » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:08 pm

I had a discussion over this with a PCSO...

He was explaining that whilst it was advisory, I should dismount as that was what was advised

I then pointed out a sign a few yards down the road.....

Image


... and asked why they were not enforcing the parking. After all the format of the sign is exactly the same, so parking must be compulsory as well.

Apparently these signs only apply to cyclists
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby BV1961 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:40 pm

I believe blue background signs are obligatory.....they are 'must do'
Such as direction signs on one way streets and roundabouts.
I doubt if the parking sign above is an official road sign.
I think the intension of these cyclist dismount signs is intended as an instruction, but I for one will ignore them.
Planners seem far too keen to direct cyclists as second class road users....Perhaps equivalent signs for motorists would read....GET OUT AND PUSH
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby PRL » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:05 pm

The draft London Cycling Design Standards lists "Cyclists Dismount" as a "sign to minimise or avoid" (together with "End of Route" and similar. )
Dawn seems to be breaking. :)
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby gaz » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:39 pm

The official guidance on the sign can be found in Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3, p157.

17.37
The sign to diagram 966 (CYCLISTS DISMOUNT) may be used together with the sign to diagram 965 (END OF ROUTE), or on its own. The sign should be provided only where cyclists are required to use a pedestrian crossing facility that they cannot legally cycle on, at the entrance to a pedestrian area, at a location with a low headroom or width restriction (e.g. a subway or bridge) or at places where visibility is restricted to such an extent that cycling would be unsafe (see also para 5.8 ). Two sizes are prescribed for the sign to diagram 966. The smaller size should normally be used, unless there is a particular hazard or conspicuity problem where the larger size of sign would be more appropriate. A non-prescribed variant of the sign to diagram 966, with the legend CYCLISTS REJOIN CARRIAGEWAY, may be authorised by the Department where this would be helpful at the end of a cycle track or shared footway


In practice I usually treat it as advisory.
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Bicycler » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:46 pm

BV1961 wrote:I believe blue background signs are obligatory.....they are 'must do'
Such as direction signs on one way streets and roundabouts.
I doubt if the parking sign above is an official road sign.
I think the intension of these cyclist dismount signs is intended as an instruction, but I for one will ignore them.
Planners seem far too keen to direct cyclists as second class road users....Perhaps equivalent signs for motorists would read....GET OUT AND PUSH

They give information, but that is sometimes stating the law and other times merely providing information or advice. I'm sure you have come across official parking signs at laybys which don't mean thou shalt park here. I'm sure you have seen pedestrian direction signs which don't mean "pedestrians shalt walk this way to the train station". I'm sure you have seen blue signs indicating cycle facilities but these do not mean "thou shalt use the cycle path".
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Redvee » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:40 am

If we, as cyclists, obey the sign and dismount we then become pedestrians pushing a bicycle so the sign doesn't apply to us so we can remount, then we obey the sign............... ad infinitum :lol:
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Cunobelin » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:31 am

Redvee wrote:If we, as cyclists, obey the sign and dismount we then become pedestrians pushing a bicycle so the sign doesn't apply to us so we can remount, then we obey the sign............... ad infinitum :lol:


Surely if you are going to treat these as mandatory, then you cannot remount without "Cyclists Remount"
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Re: 'Cyclists Dismount', should we?

Postby Mark1978 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:24 am

But where is the sign? Usually these are on shared pavements and the like. But cyclists are only allowed on footways by special permission, if that permission is revoked - by means of a "cyclists dismount" sign, would the rider not then be guilty of cycling on the pavement?
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