Horse Riders

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
PeterLJ
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Horse Riders

Post by PeterLJ »

Hi

I was wondering what the situation is if one is knocked down by some one riding a horse? Happened today, two riders coming towards me, no indication of any problem (or I would have dismounted, as I have in the past) and my speed probably nearer 5mph than 10 when the second rider lost control and the back end of his horse sent me flying. Fortunatly into the grass verge (nothing broken though 12hours later I am still very sore).

What are the rules? I have been stoped by one lady (blocking the lane with horse) saying all cyclists should dismount.

BTW to get this in perspective I am a 70 year old, so not inclined to race!

Peter L-J
There is only one thing worse than cycling up a steep hill, and that,s coming to a downhill bit before reaching the top.
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gaz
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by gaz »

Sorry to hear of your injuries.

Legal position is fairly well explained here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=59772

There's clearly every reason to take particular care around horses.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by [XAP]Bob »

We are no more obliged to dismount than they are, although I give a very wide berth - horses and 'bents don't mix well generally.

Thursday evenin I had a motorist try to undertake me when I pulled the flagpole down and went wide and slow around two horses (and was thanked by the riders).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Psamathe
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Psamathe »

PeterLJ wrote:Hi

I was wondering what the situation is if one is knocked down by some one riding a horse? Happened today, two riders coming towards me, no indication of any problem (or I would have dismounted, as I have in the past) and my speed probably nearer 5mph than 10 when the second rider lost control and the back end of his horse sent me flying. Fortunatly into the grass verge (nothing broken though 12hours later I am still very sore).

What are the rules? I have been stoped by one lady (blocking the lane with horse) saying all cyclists should dismount.

BTW to get this in perspective I am a 70 year old, so not inclined to race!

Peter L-J

I don't know so am expressing opinion.

I would expect all horse riders to have 3rd party liability insurance (either through their house policy or through membership of some horse organisation (as with e.g. CTC) or through an explicit policy (covering their horse and liability). And if not, they they would be personally liable or injury & damage.

I pass a lot of horses (I live in a horsey area with loads of single track lanes people on horses love) so pass them regularly. When approaching horses I always slow right down and watch the horse(s) - and you can usually tell how they will react before they do, giving you the chance to quickly stop if necessary before the horse goes potty.

Horse riders (round me) are a friendly crowd and we invariably exchange pleasantries. Through winter I used to ride with a hi-vis waistcoat things which was never done up at the front and so flapped around even at slow speed. And I noticed the horses tended to start reacting, so I'd quickly stop before the horse really reacts and goes out-of-control. And on chatting to one rider they thought it was the hi-vis vest flapping causing the horse to be unhappy - so I then held the waistcoat thing closed at the front when passing horses and no real problems.

Often riders will ride two abreast and as soon as they see me (either from ahead of I call out is approaching from behind - to warn them of my silent approach) they will move to single file (even when there is plenty of road anyway).

Once of twice I've been following horses which seemed a bit skittish so I've held back and the riders have "pulled over" at the next passing place, just as I do for cars, etc.

I imagine things as, were a car approaching, the "scare factor" for the horse must be a lot worse than for a bike approaching (size, speed, etc.). Cyclist might be brighter which might offset that a bit. When driving I've never looked at my speed when passing a horse rider (maybe I will next time) 'cos I'm watching the horse ready for it to react.

Personally I think it unreasonable for a horse rider to expect a cyclist to dismount when they pass. Do they expect cars to come to a complete stop and wait for them ? Roads are for all to use with due consideration for other users. If the horse is too "skittish" to go on the roads then it should not be taken on them (and I had a friend who had a horse that was in that category and she thus never took it on the roads). Reasonable to slow (right) down, but unreasonable to expect you to in effect stop for them to pass.

Next time I pass a horse rider I will explicitly as them about this "dismount" thing.

Ian
Psamathe
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Psamathe »

gaz wrote:Sorry to hear of your injuries.

Legal position is fairly well explained here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=59772

There's clearly every reason to take particular care around horses.

I've just read the thread and am quite amazed (assuming it still holds true).

I can appreciate there being no liability when an animal is kept out of public areas (e.g. securely fenced in). but when somebody choses to take their animal out into public areas (e.g. roads) where there are scary things (from the animals perspective) then I would expect there to be liability.

A year ago my dog insurance got a bit ludicrous (they wanted over £700 per year for two dogs with a full no claims history! (they were old)), so I cancelled it and made sure I took out a 3rd party liability policy. Even though they have never escaped and run off or done anything that could have suggested anything liable to an accident/claim, there was a risk and I considered myself responsible for whatever my dogs might do (however unlikely), so I keep 3rd party liability insurance.

I always understood that e.g. farmers have 3rd party liability insurance so when you wake-up one day to find their cows walking and pooing all over your lawn/flower beds, there is no argument you just make a claim on their insurance. So why should horse riders be any different.

Ian
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gaz
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by gaz »

Horses under human control have had rights to be on the Highway much longer than most of the scary things they now have to share them with.

The Animals Act 1971 covers many different situations. IMO the previous thread suggests the OPs case would fall under Section 2.

Trespassing cattle fall under Section 4 which implies their owner has a liability for damage done.
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Mark1978
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Mark1978 »

I've never heard of any requirement to dismount. Although I generally slow right down such that I can immediately stop if required. Usually this is well received by the riders.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Its a horsey thing and the law is a an ass.
If your dog bit someone then you are liable so when a horse kicks you (not the owner of the horse)..............why are they some how not liable.

Horse riding is incredibly dangerous for the rider, but it gets covered up by whoever, If you are a cyclist or a motor vehicle driver even a pedestrian you are sure to get in the press if you are unlucky to come to harm.

A class thing I.M.O. so I just scoot round them as quick as I can, but never give them more space than me if head to head.
I have in the past several times had my path blocked by a horse on purpose by the rider, I cant ever remember whilst walking or cycling or driving ever blocking the whole highway just to prove that I can.
Nothing against horses just the riders who parade themselves on the tarmac and byeways, and goes with give way to peds signs that are more common than ever on so called shared paths.

Just the other day out on a wide dissused railway track and was stopped by inconsiderate dog walkers not controlling their dogs, then when I stopped one mutered "Too fast for this early in the morning" then I pulled away slowly and they said "oh not that slow" :? I had slowed to a crawl as I could not proceed ,I had dinged my bell in plenty of time and they knew I was there.
Sarcastic or what........

Horses dont start :x
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TrevA
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by TrevA »

Mark1978 wrote:I've never heard of any requirement to dismount. Although I generally slow right down such that I can immediately stop if required. Usually this is well received by the riders.


Some riders wear jackets that state "Horses - Pass wide and slow". That's what I do, slow down, call out and pass in the right hand gutter if they are on the left. Nine times out of 10, I don't have a problem. If you watch the horse, they will have spotted you long before the rider does.
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Mick F
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Mick F »

I never have much a problem with horses and riders, but on occasion I do, and it annoys me.

One time, I was speeding down a hill so I could climb the other side more easily, but a horse and rider coming the other way TOLD me to slow down. I didn't (much) and got a mouthful for my trouble.

Horses are dangerous animals - some more dangerous than others. They should be licenced and insured BY LAW and not allowed in public and on roads unless the rider AND horse have passed a test.

If I ruled the world, I'd do away with them all except for racing/sport. They are no use to us any more for anything else. They cost a fortune to keep and are a waste of land and energy.
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Si
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Si »

Horses are dangerous animals - some more dangerous than others. They should be licenced and insured BY LAW and not allowed in public and on roads unless the rider AND horse have passed a test.


Many would say the same about cyclists!
firedfromthecircus
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by firedfromthecircus »

Mick F wrote:I never have much a problem with horses and riders, but on occasion I do, and it annoys me.

One time, I was speeding down a hill so I could climb the other side more easily, but a horse and rider coming the other way TOLD me to slow down. I didn't (much) and got a mouthful for my trouble.

Horses are dangerous animals - some more dangerous than others. They should be licenced and insured BY LAW and not allowed in public and on roads unless the rider AND horse have passed a test.

If I ruled the world, I'd do away with them all except for racing/sport. They are no use to us any more for anything else. They cost a fortune to keep and are a waste of land and energy.


I don't mind horses. It's the riders that are the problem. If the horse can not be controlled in public then it should not be allowed in public. That said, horses, much like cyclists, were around before the cars, and if we take the car 'side' trying to eradicate the rights of horse riders then it doesn't bode well for us.
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661-Pete
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by 661-Pete »

I would have thought, dismounting is a bad idea. The horse may have already recognised you on your bike as a human (and therefore 'safe': horses like humans). If it suddenly sees you split up into a human plus another 'animal' (i.e. your bike on its own), it may take the bike to be some sort of predator, and hence spook.

Never having ridden a 'bent, I wouldn't know at first hand what's the best action to take, but I've heard stories about how horses mistake them for stalking big cats or wolves. Certainly need more care.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by [XAP]Bob »

661-Pete wrote:I would have thought, dismounting is a bad idea. The horse may have already recognised you on your bike as a human (and therefore 'safe': horses like humans). If it suddenly sees you split up into a human plus another 'animal' (i.e. your bike on its own), it may take the bike to be some sort of predator, and hence spook.

Never having ridden a 'bent, I wouldn't know at first hand what's the best action to take, but I've heard stories about how horses mistake them for stalking big cats or wolves. Certainly need more care.


Talking is the thing I've found most helpful - talk to the horse, they're used to that, oh and take down anything that looks like a whip...

Slow, wide and chatty
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
skicat
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by skicat »

661-Pete wrote:I would have thought, dismounting is a bad idea. The horse may have already recognised you on your bike as a human (and therefore 'safe': horses like humans). If it suddenly sees you split up into a human plus another 'animal' (i.e. your bike on its own), it may take the bike to be some sort of predator, and hence spook.

Never having ridden a 'bent, I wouldn't know at first hand what's the best action to take, but I've heard stories about how horses mistake them for stalking big cats or wolves. Certainly need more care.


It depends on the horse. You're right - horses do recognise, and usually like people but it's very hard to know what's going on in a horses mind.
My other half's horse is fine with people up to the point they sit down. Then she gets all nervous as though she doesn't recognise them as people any more. I'm also aware of a horse which is fine with women but gets very jittery when men are around. Talking calmly to the horse/rider is probably a good idea when on a bike as that at least reminds the animal that there is a human in there somewhere.

Specific noises seem to worry them as well, so avoiding bells/horns etc. is a good idea. OH's horse probably gets overtaken by dozens of vehicles every time she's out on the road, and never a problem. Unless it's a Volkswagen camper van. How she can recognise one of those coming up behind her, heaven only knows.
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