Horse Riders

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
LondonBikeCommuter
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by LondonBikeCommuter »

Psamathe wrote:I would expect all horse riders to have 3rd party liability insurance (either through their house policy or through membership of some horse organisation (as with e.g. CTC) or through an explicit policy (covering their horse and liability). And if not, they they would be personally liable or injury & damage.


I would expect all cyclist to have 3rd party liability insurance but how many actually do? And while your talking about horses would you say the same about the much larger problem of dogs?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by [XAP]Bob »

LondonBikeCommuter wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I would expect all horse riders to have 3rd party liability insurance (either through their house policy or through membership of some horse organisation (as with e.g. CTC) or through an explicit policy (covering their horse and liability). And if not, they they would be personally liable or injury & damage.


I would expect all cyclist to have 3rd party liability insurance but how many actually do? And while your talking about horses would you say the same about the much larger problem of dogs?
Almost all - it's normally part of your home insurance, same as if you were a pedestrian.
Last edited by [XAP]Bob on 10 Aug 2014, 1:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Bicycler
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Bicycler »

Compulsory insurance is a bit of a red herring here. Motor vehicles are obliged to have insurance because of the unprecedented levels of carnage they cause. Arguably it has had some very negative consequences in limiting the financial costs of poor driving. Vulnerable road users simply do not cause the same amount of damage.

I do think that riders should be responsible for damage caused by their horses. Whether or not they have insurance for this unlikely scenario should be a matter of personal choice.
zed
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by zed »

And how is it that dog owners have to pick up all their animal's poo, when horse owners can leave great steaming piles of the stuff anywhere their animal pleases? I was cycling along the beautiful new stretch of tarmacked cycle track that now links Balquidder and Strathyre just after it opened and had to negotiate just such stuff. When I worked at a big hotel which has an equestrian centre there were signs telling riders to 'Scoop your poop'. I've also seen in other countries horses with little bags under their rear ends for catching the stuff.

Hmphh - that feels better.
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Mick F
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Mick F »

Utterly agree.
Horse poo is terrible stuff. Gone are the days when people would greedily scoop it up and chuck it on their roses.

We were in Paris some years ago on holiday and took a trip to the Palace of Versailles. There were pony and trap rides going on round the gardens and the shafts of the traps had a cover across to collect the poo rather than it litter the manicured pathways.

Here's a gate near here with a sign on it:
Please take your dog poo home!

I'd like a sign on the roads to say:
Please take your horse poo home!
Mick F. Cornwall
Flinders
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Flinders »

A few points that might help in understanding how horses work.

They are flight animals. In a crisis, they run first and ask questions later. The worst thing you can do is surprise them. If you whiz past them silently with no warning, the first thing they see is you coming close to their side. That is very difficult for them, as all their instincts tell them to get the hell away from whatever it is. A rider can't 'collect' their horse and warn it if they haven't heard you either. The horse will see you first because a horse's eyes can see further behind them than the rider's can. If you can warn horse and rider, not too suddenly, before you overtake, it helps.

Horses can't see the ground for several feet in front of them, their nose is in the way. So, especially if you're on a 'bent, it would be better not to pull in too close in front. If you did, you'd suddenly 'emerge' from under their feet.

Most people wouldn't take a horse on the road unless it was safe in traffic, but horses do have to learn to cope and there has to be a first time, so remember, like a learner driver, it could be the horse's first time out. Some riders wear tabards saying 'young horse' in such a case.

A horse could have been flurried by a previous bad or aggressive overtake. Some people in cars, vans, or lorries hoot as they pas and rev their engines, or give intentional close shaves, just like they do to us. Just as it upsets us and makes us shaky, it upsets horses, and they don;t understand why it happens. It helps if you give them maximum space.

There are few bridle paths these days that are passable for horses, and getting to them usually involves using roads. If you don't think horses ought to be on roads, then remember the quotation about 'and when they came for me, there was nobody left to speak for me'.

Horses aren't machines. Even the best behaved one on the world can have a bad moment- like deciding not to step on a drain cover or in a puddle where they can't see the bottom, and moving to the right to avoid it. So giving them plenty of space is always good policy -just as you give cyclists space in case they do something apparently unpredictable (like swing out to avoid a pothole).

No doubt some riders are rude, but please don't condemn the rest for that; we don't like it when we're condemned for a cyclist who behaves badly. Most riders will appreciate you giving them warning and space and passing slowly. If they don't wave a thank you, it may be because taking a hand off the reins isn't the best thing to do when you're trying to keep your horse under close control and reassure it (riders communicate through the reins to the horse via the horse's mouth) and it may not be a good time to shout. Amongst the horsey, a nod of the head or a lift of the stick is the official thank you between riders, and it's easy to miss if you aren't looking for it.

And thanks for reading this far. :wink:


PS A rider doesn't know when a horse has left a dropping. They don't stop to do it.
Flinders
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Flinders »

zed wrote:And how is it that dog owners have to pick up all their animal's poo, when horse owners can leave great steaming piles of the stuff anywhere their animal pleases? I was cycling along the beautiful new stretch of tarmacked cycle track that now links Balquidder and Strathyre just after it opened and had to negotiate just such stuff. When I worked at a big hotel which has an equestrian centre there were signs telling riders to 'Scoop your poop'. I've also seen in other countries horses with little bags under their rear ends for catching the stuff.

Hmphh - that feels better.


Unlike dog poo, horse poo won't give your kids a disease that makes them go blind, for a start. They're herbivores, so their poo is pretty safe. It's ridiculous to have bags on rear ends on roads. The stuff is 100% biodegradable. I use the stuff in my compost heaps, it's brilliant. :lol:
I'd rather not have horses on dedicated cycle tracks, I agree there. But on roads, I see no problem. Horses had rights on roads before cars- and before bikes.
zed
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by zed »

Wonderful resource can be the internet! There's actually a British Horse Society code of practice for horse dung! It includes a section on shared use paths.

http://www.bhsscotland.org.uk/uploads/5 ... e_2010.pdf

Enjoy.
MikeF
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by MikeF »

Mick F wrote:I never have much a problem with horses and riders, but on occasion I do, and it annoys me.

One time, I was speeding down a hill so I could climb the other side more easily, but a horse and rider coming the other way TOLD me to slow down. I didn't (much) and got a mouthful for my trouble.

Horses are dangerous animals - some more dangerous than others. They should be licenced and insured BY LAW and not allowed in public and on roads unless the rider AND horse have passed a test.

If I ruled the world, I'd do away with them all except for racing/sport. They are no use to us any more for anything else. They cost a fortune to keep and are a waste of land and energy.
That's a bit intolerant and sounds like many car drivers' response to cyclists being on the road - holding them up etc.. Tests/courses are available for horse riding on the road, but these are not obligatory and of course the test is taken by the rider not the horse! If you had spooked the horse you could have caused serious injury and maybe charged with riding furiously.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
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Mick F
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Mick F »

No, I don't think so.
I believe that a horse rider is in charge of a dangerous item and therefore the onus is on them to protect it from the public going about their normal business.

Also, as I sort of asked before, what are are horses for?
They serve no purpose other than for sport or racing.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Si
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Si »

I believe that a horse rider is in charge of a dangerous item and therefore the onus is on them to protect it from the public going about their normal business.


There's many that would say the same about bikes....the onus being on the cyclist to protect itself from the public going about their normal business by wearing a helmet and hiviz, using the cycle path and getting out of the bloody road.

They serve no purpose other than for sport or racing.

Oh the irony of a cyclist asking this :lol:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Si wrote:
They serve no purpose other than for sport or racing.

Oh the irony of a cyclist asking this :lol:

How many people use a horse as regular transport? I've never seen one tied up outside a supermarket, whereas I often see bikes tied up there.

I have no issue with them using the road, and I don't particularly object to the free manure, but a bun bag is a reasonable request - whilst on a paved highway at any rate. Bridleways, particularly greenways are a different matter...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Vorpal
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Vorpal »

Mick F wrote:No, I don't think so.
I believe that a horse rider is in charge of a dangerous item and therefore the onus is on them to protect it from the public going about their normal business.

Also, as I sort of asked before, what are are horses for?
They serve no purpose other than for sport or racing.

In some cultures, horses are still used for work and transport. That includes Gypsies and other traveller communities, and religious communities such as Amish and Mennonite.

One of the rag n'bone men in Essex, even a couple of years ago used a horse and cart. I've seen horses tied up a couple times of two different pubs in Suffolk at Sunday lunch times. So, it may not be common, but it seems that people do occasioanlly use a sporting / leisure activity as a means of transport ;)
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Vorpal wrote:In some cultures, horses are still used for work and transport. That includes Gypsies and other traveller communities

Not the travellers round here, if the range rover is older than a couple of years then it's replaced...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Psamathe
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Re: Horse Riders

Post by Psamathe »

I suspect as with so many things it can come down to individuals (OK, I've never seen a rider prick-up their horses poo).

Where I used to live some time ago there was a polo club (£££££) where the stable hands used to have to take out loads of horses at the same time to exercise them (one rider 6 or 7 horses). And they were very skittish horses. And you never passed them and always kept your distance - unless you wanted your car in the repair shop. Pretty inconsiderate behaviour but £££££ involved.

Where I am now the riders seem a pretty considerate crowd. Never had an issue and never (yet) come across a skittish horse.

Appart from the issue of using poo bags, as others have said, you get considerate and inconsiderate cyclists, drivers, horse riders, motorcyclists, bus drivers, pedestrians, etc.

And I firmly believe the roads should be available for as many different activities as possible (i.e. not for the exclusive use of any one group).

Ian
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