Joining a road turning right

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Jammylee1
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Joined: 7 Aug 2014, 5:33pm

Joining a road turning right

Post by Jammylee1 »

I am fairly local to this area, which joins a 50mph road from a road with a clear cycle lane, alongside the road.
Approaching the turn, which is quite a tight squeeze, there is a cycle lane for the full stretch of the road which involves crossing in front of the traffic, to join. As a cyclist myself, I feared for his safety that he was waiting ahead of the stop line, to I presume turn right, to the left of two lanes of traffic. I understand it is not compulsory to use the cycle lane, but in this instance on a narrow, fast moving road, I thought it would of been safer. If anybody could shed some light it would be appreciated as I have yet to cycle this say myself, and until seeing the situation it hadn't crossed my mind.
Thank-you
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View point from the traffic lights to turn right and join the road
View point from the traffic lights to turn right and join the road
View point looking to the traffic lights
View point looking to the traffic lights
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by [XAP]Bob »

I've no idea what has happenned or why this was posted, does anyone else?
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gaz
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by gaz »

Welcome to the forum Jammylee1.

I'm also a bit confused :? .

Cyclists sometimes wait ahead of a stop line to get a head start on motor vehicles, sometimes because they've passed the light legally but not cleared the junction before traffic ahead has started moving.

There could be myriad reasons for choosing the road over an adjacent cycletrack.

If you're looking for opinions on an event that you've witnessed a link to a map or streetview may be more helpful than screen grabs. That way the description of events can include road names and directions by compass bearing.
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Tonyf33
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by Tonyf33 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:I've no idea what has happenned or why this was posted, does anyone else?

Really?
he saw a cyclist ahead of the stop line wanting to turn right. In doing so he would have then gone on to being on the left lane of the dual laned carriageway.
From the tone he was wondering if this was safe and/or why the cyclist might do that if there was a cycle lane along the length of the road..

In answer, the cycle lane might not be that great to cycle on, certainly a lot of them are poorly maintained and you can't get up to much speed in any case, even more so with the propenity of pedestrians wanting to 'share' the cycle lane :roll:
Additionally if there is a turning further along the road (to the left) or a roundabout then it would be far easier for the cyclist to take that from the road rather than walk across 4 lanes of traffic to get to it and indeed the cycle lane may end suddenly in any case thus forcing you to move to the other side of the road anyway. There may not be a safe opportunity to cross over the 4 lanes if the speed of the vehicles is high/concentrated so going along the road is probably the easiest & safest place to carry on the journey.

For many experienced cyclists one wouldn't really think to use any cycle lane unless their was a definite advantage, more often than not they take you well out of your way from where you want to go..unlike the road/highway.
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timdownieuk
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by timdownieuk »

Tonyf33 wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:I've no idea what has happenned or why this was posted, does anyone else?

Really?


Well I couldn't understand it either. The description is very unclear as to what was going on and the static pictures from street view are no help. Links to original images would have been much better.

Tim
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661-Pete
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by 661-Pete »

I am well aware that it's bad form to criticise the grammar of a fellow forummer - especially a newbie - but I'm afraid this example takes the biscuit. I, too, cannot make head nor tail of it. :?
(Apologies for the clichés).
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Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Bicycler
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by Bicycler »

TBH, I know the junction and I'm trying to get my head around what's happened.

I'm sure this is the junction: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.76141 ... !2e0?hl=en

Here, a fairly busy dual carriageway A-road (A584) ends on an even busier single carriageway A-road (A583) at a traffic signalled T-junction. If memory serves both roads have a 50mph limit at the junction.

Jammylee's first picture shows the filter for traffic turning right onto the dual carriageway from the A583. I think this is the manoeuver being questioned. To my recollection there are no cycle facilities approaching this junction from that direction (though admittedly Streetview and I may be out of date). There is a cycle path crossing the junction (see jammylee's 2nd picture) but it is only to enable a right turn from the dual carriageway, it does not extend further west along the A583.

To my mind a cyclist has 2 legal options when executing the manoeuver. He can do as Jammylee observed and take the filter lane like the rest of the traffic or he can dismount and cross the road, join the cycle path and cross both carriageways of the dual carriageway before starting along it. The second option might be more realistic if we consider beginner cyclists or those who want to avoid traffic at all costs. In reality such a cyclist would never turn onto that dual carriageway. There are no segregated cycle paths along its length. There are some spectacularly dangerous narrow cycle lanes: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75991 ... !2e0?hl=en
Advisory lanes there but the other carriageway has mandatory ones with no repeater cycle markings or signs so they look like road edge markings: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75967 ... !2e0?hl=en
I haven't been down recently but unless they've altered it the dual carriageway changes to the national speed limit after a few hundred yards without any improvement in cycle facilities: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75899 ... !2e0?hl=en
It is safe to say that the nice traffic controlled junction is likely to have been the least of the cyclist's worries!
AlaninWales
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by AlaninWales »

That does look like th screen-grabs Bicycler and if the cyclist the OP was concerned about was waiting ("past the stop line") in the filter lane, he was avoiding the cycle path in order to avoid (apart from the unnecessary dismount) this delicious farce http://goo.gl/maps/38q7q
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gaz
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by gaz »

Thanks for the maps.

I thought the description was of a right turn from the A584 onto the A583 eastbound, questioning why the cyclist was joining the A583 rather than the shared cycletrack (pavement) on it's southern side.

In which case the fact that it doubles up as a car park might influence the cyclists choice.
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Bicycler
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by Bicycler »

Yes okay. The picture of the turn filter might have thrown me. If it's that way round (and it's one or other seeing as there are only two possible right turns) then, yes, there is a cycle path which runs all the way along that road into town. I can understand the OP's question. It is not a very nice road to cycle down. In all honesty there needs to be better cycling provision out this way. These 2 roads are a huge barrier to cycling into Preston from the towns and villages to the west.
AlaninWales
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by AlaninWales »

Bicycler wrote:Yes okay. The picture of the turn filter might have thrown me. If it's that way round (and it's one or other seeing as there are only two possible right turns) then, yes, there is a cycle path which runs all the way along that road into town. I can understand the OP's question. It is not a very nice road to cycle down. In all honesty there needs to be better cycling provision out this way. These 2 roads are a huge barrier to cycling into Preston from the towns and villages to the west.

http://goo.gl/maps/SP8zB :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :roll:
Then starts to yield to the road at entrances http://goo.gl/maps/toczO http://goo.gl/maps/ZFG4V :twisted: http://goo.gl/maps/tqfhK
Cyclecraft wrote:The risk of conflict is greatest when using a roadside cycle track in the opposite direction to nearside road traffic flow, because drivers will least expect vehicles to be coming towards them on that side of the road.
etc.
Plus of course the cyclist may have a destination to the north of the A583, so riding on the shared pavement would mean having to cross four lanes of traffic with no assistance from lights.
Cyclecraft wrote:It is a mistake to think that cycle facilities are inherently safer than using the general roads
Vorpal
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by Vorpal »

I don't know the junction, and I'm not entirely certain what the OP is asking, but it is usually both safer, and quicker to take junctions like this as the operator of a vehicle (e.g. do what the driver of a car would do) than it is to use pavements or cycle facilities.

cycle lanes at junctions can be especially problematic because larger vehicles overtaking will hide a cyclist, and the drivers of other vehicles may not be aware that the cyclist is there.
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timdownieuk
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Re: Joining a road turning right

Post by timdownieuk »

Vorpal wrote:I don't know the junction, and I'm not entirely certain what the OP is asking, but it is usually both safer, and quicker to take junctions like this as the operator of a vehicle (e.g. do what the driver of a car would do) than it is to use pavements or cycle facilities.

cycle lanes at junctions can be especially problematic because larger vehicles overtaking will hide a cyclist, and the drivers of other vehicles may not be aware that the cyclist is there.


I was approaching a busy roundabout yesterday and spied a cyclist on a bike path clutching his bike waiting in vain for a break in the traffic so that he could cross as a pedestrian. It would have been a LOT easier and quicker to have approached this as a road user rather than a pedestrian.

Tim
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