Right Hand Turns

[fluffybunnyuk]

I remember reading a thread somewhere on the forum about right hand turns. So i took the advice and having turned left at the loampit vale roundabout in lewisham onto the pseudo high street double lane road. I went into the right side lane for a right hand turn. The advice given was not to park on the white line in the middle but to take control of the lane, which i did. To my utter terror a national express coach tried to squeeze between a car in the first lane and me in primary in the 2nd lane... (the coach was touching my left hand shifter so Id say the gap was too tight).

Other than crossing my fingers and praying, or needing a good drink to get over it. Is primary better to turn right or sitting on the white line hoping a truck coming the other way will clip you best?

[karlt]

You can't win with that. Apart from an email to National Express with the time and date, pointing out that the coach did in fact collide with you (albeit glancingly) and insisting the matter be looked into as a matter of urgency. Not that bugger all will happen, of course.

[Mark1978]

You do need to complain to NatEx. Say the bus hit you and you only just maintained control.

[Si]

Hard to say for your particular case having not witnessed exactly what happened and how you handled it, but speaking more generally, rather than follow a hard a fast rule regarding position I'd suggest that one takes good observation of what is happening behind, and reacts appropriately. Thus if it looks like the vehicle behind is going to try to squeeze down that little gap to your left then either shut the door on them or move right to get a bit more room once one has slowed them down. And, of course, if one can establish eye contact with the driver they are much more likely to back off a bit, but to do this one does need to be able to look behind properly rather than just flick the head......which is an issue we get with a number of experienced cyclists.

[Slow Loris]

Sorry you had such a fright .I would definitely contact National Express as the driver's judgement is woefully inadequate and put you at risk. You could try posting a comment on their facebook page – some cyclists find companies respond promptly to negative publicity.

+1 for Si's comment about eye-contact, although this can be tricky to achieve with a driver sitting in a high cab. From the sound of it, you were in the right position but the situation was unavoidable since the driver wouldn't wait. I'd be interested to see a streetmap link, if you're able – were you in a right filter lane? I normally find drivers show consideration (albeit still impatient) when I'm stopped in the centre of a single lane to turn right. If the lane is slightly wider, they can try to undertake so eye contact often works and I still have some room to move to the central white line if necessary. If I'm on the outside of a two lane carriageway, I'm extra vigilant looking at the drivers directly behind and to my left, but it's still a vulnerable position reliant on good drivers, not selfish ones .

Incidentally, since raising the handlebars I'm much more comfortable looking round when riding, so if you find it awkward, it might be worth adjusting the bars and saddle to suit.

[axel_knutt]

This reflects the conclusion I've been coming to lately, not about turning right, but about primary position. Blocking the lane is all very well and good in principle, but in practice traffic lanes are often too wide for it to work. There's usually enough room to push through at one side or the other, especially with lanes that flare wider at the give way line.

The worst example I've had recently was at a roundabout on the bypass. I was waiting at the give way line in the right hand lane, with a car in the left lane, a bollard to my right, and an impatient car revving the engine behind. As I moved forward, the car pushed through the gap between me and the bollard and then swerved left in front of me, forcing me almost to a standstill in the middle of the roundabout. To crown it all, the car coming round the roundabout who had to slow down to avoid me then honks his horn, and deliberately tried to barge me off the road by swerving at me as he passed.

It makes me wonder when people are going to get some sense of perspective. I think it would cause a few raised eyebrows if someone thumped another for being in front of them in the queue at the post office, or stabbed the people who arrived in the doctors waiting room first...........

[fluffybunnyuk]

Thanks, especially to Si. Its all good advice. Usually im good at my on road communication.Id already spent 2.5 minutes stationary waiting to turn right, and no cars were letting me cross. the car to my left happened as you may have surmised to be a mini. So the distance between me and the original object a 4x4 on the inside lane changed. My error was not adjusting my position to shut out the gap more. It never occured to me a coach would try to roll through that gap.

http://goo.gl/maps/DmJTS

In my picture im the blue line,yellow was the 4x4, and is now the mini. red line is the coach



and yes it was right outside lewisham nick. Im cursed!!!

[fluffybunnyuk]

The best way to imagine it is in the photo take the silver car and imagine it tight to the left hand kerb, im about 3/4 of the way across the outer lane stationary to turn right. Coach im guessing has pulled out of bus lane to avoid car, and squeeze thru the gap, making me swear furiously when i suddenly look left and see this coach trying to roll thru the gap. Good thing he wasnt going at speed, or he'd have pushed me over into the oncoming lane.

Sometimes I think cycling in london is like russian roulette.

p.s. I gave up complaining. been there tried it. noone cares. You have to lookout for yourself, and constantly learn from experiences to survive.

[mjr]

Please don't give up complaining. Don't spend too much time on it, because it rarely works, but sometimes it does.

[rfryer]

I'm glad you weren't hurt, and i'd agree that a complaint should be made.

However it's worth remembering that, whatever your positioning on this road, an idiot driver like this would be able to find a way to squeeze past without giving any clearance. Being positioned where you were, at least you were less likely to be shunted into oncoming traffic in the process, or to experience similar (and simultaneous) close passes from oncoming traffic.

But I think Si has a point; maybe it's worth taking regular looks behind when waiting a long time in this manner, even though it should not be necessary.

[TonyR]

Personally if I were turning right there and having to wait I would have been just left of the central white line so it would be obvious I was turning and there would be room for traffic to pass on the inside. If you were waiting for 2.5 mins I doubt you kept your arm out for all that time so for most people you would be seen as stopped and blocking the lane for some obscure reason, not turning right.

[[XAP]Bob]

Personally if I were turning right there and having to wait I would have been just left of the central white line so it would be obvious I was turning and there would be room for traffic to pass on the inside. If you were waiting for 2.5 mins I doubt you kept your arm out for all that time so for most people you would be seen as stopped and blocking the lane for some obscure reason, not turning right.

Not with two lanes of traffic in each direction I wouldn't have been.
Centre of the lane - arm outstretched for two minutes if needed - in exactly the same position as you would be in a car turning right.

The car in the bus lane shouldn't have been there, nor should it have stopped there (Double red lines), had it not been there there would have been no conflict.

[Mark1978]

This reflects the conclusion I've been coming to lately, not about turning right, but about primary position. Blocking the lane is all very well and good in principle, but in practice traffic lanes are often too wide for it to work. There's usually enough room to push through at one side or the other

..

Yes. I've had this quite a few times. Where there really wasn't enough space to overtake properly so I've been in primary but they push past anyway.

Worst I've had much like yours exiting a roundabout and in primary as there was another roundabout where I needed to turn right in 100 metres or so. The exit from the roundabout funnelled down so a van barged through, of course narrowing road so closer and closer

[[XAP]Bob]

Depends how "diagonal" you can put your bike.

[rfryer]

Centre of the lane - arm outstretched for two minutes if needed - in exactly the same position as you would be in a car turning right.

I fully agree, not only to keep my purpose clear, but also because the bigger you look, the more clearance other vehicles are likely to give you.