Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

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ArMoRothair
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by ArMoRothair »

honesty wrote: The school took a class of pupils across the path into the play area, and all of them were wearing hi vis tabards. they then proceeded to play in the tabards...


I was in the park yesterday and there school doing some end-of-term park trip. Their whole school-full of children were each wearing hi-viz bibs in the middle of the park. It was a sea of fluorescence.
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mjr
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by mjr »

mrjemm wrote:Sounds like you're arguing that because someone in hi-vis can be seen by a motorist, he'll get less space... despite making little sense to me, I think I'll stick to wearing hi-vis when I deem it suitable (i.e. when I remember or can be bothered); I'd rather be seen than not.

Which is fine except 1. the important thing is contrast not fluorescence (ride among the yellow sunflowers and other crops here while wearing yellow and you're not going to be seen); and 2. by visibly endorsing the idea that special clothes are helpful/safer for ordinary cycling you are helping to deter people from riding if they haven't spent money on the special gear.

Those two reasons combined with some informal testing of rides with/without hi-vis and counting the close passes (no significant effect, FWIW); and the general faff of remembering/carrying special clothes mean I put more reflective (which does seem to work, especially in low-light) tape on my bikes (because I forget the bike when riding) but rarely wear fluo any more.

Also, there was a small but not statistically significant reduction in the amount of verbal/horn abuse from other road users when not wearing hi-vis and helmet. Make of that what you will, but Ian Walker's research is probably more reliable than my counts.
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Mark1978
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by Mark1978 »

I think this is two seperate but conflated issues. Why would someone wear a jacket in this weather of whatever colour. As opposed to a short sleeve jersey of whatever colour.

The colour of the garment and the type are independent variables.
Bicycler
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by Bicycler »

Great as long as you can change your clothes or don't mind walking round in fluorescent clothing all day. If I have to wear a waterproof I wouldn't mind it being bright but if it means having to change clothes or walk round all day looking like a highlighter pen then I start to object.
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by mrjemm »

mjr wrote:
mrjemm wrote:Sounds like you're arguing that because someone in hi-vis can be seen by a motorist, he'll get less space... despite making little sense to me, I think I'll stick to wearing hi-vis when I deem it suitable (i.e. when I remember or can be bothered); I'd rather be seen than not.

Which is fine except 1. the important thing is contrast not fluorescence (ride among the yellow sunflowers and other crops here while wearing yellow and you're not going to be seen); and 2. by visibly endorsing the idea that special clothes are helpful/safer for ordinary cycling you are helping to deter people from riding if they haven't spent money on the special gear.

Those two reasons combined with some informal testing of rides with/without hi-vis and counting the close passes (no significant effect, FWIW); and the general faff of remembering/carrying special clothes mean I put more reflective (which does seem to work, especially in low-light) tape on my bikes (because I forget the bike when riding) but rarely wear fluo any more.

Also, there was a small but not statistically significant reduction in the amount of verbal/horn abuse from other road users when not wearing hi-vis and helmet. Make of that what you will, but Ian Walker's research is probably more reliable than my counts.


And to that I refer you to the rest of my post that you left out...

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mjr
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by mjr »

mrjemm wrote:And to that I refer you to the rest of my post that you left out...

Which seemed irrelevant to the points I made, claiming that there's never a background the same colouring as your unspecified choice and that hi-vis will somehow get prats who don't look to look.

Mark1978 wrote:I think this is two seperate but conflated issues. Why would someone wear a jacket in this weather of whatever colour. As opposed to a short sleeve jersey of whatever colour.

The colour of the garment and the type are independent variables.

Except people have been told that techno-colour dreamcoats will save us all... regardless of whether you need a coat in any particular weather.
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Mark1978
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by Mark1978 »

Mark1978 wrote:I think this is two seperate but conflated issues. Why would someone wear a jacket in this weather of whatever colour. As opposed to a short sleeve jersey of whatever colour.

The colour of the garment and the type are independent variables.

Except people have been told that techno-colour dreamcoats will save us all... regardless of whether you need a coat in any particular weather.[/quote]

You don't know why the person in question was wearing their coat. It might have been for hi vis reasons, it might have been they are a bit cold, or they needed the pockets or any number of reasons.
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by Edwards »

On the day in question I thought Thunderstorms were forecast coming up from the south. I know I would want a waterproof coat on in heavy rain.

So if heavy showers are forecast do you put on the waterproof coat and keep it on or do you stop if it starts to rain and put it on?
After all that is why some cyclists jump red lights and punish slower pedestrians that might slow them down.
They need to make reasonable progress (for them) at all times. Sod the rest of us.

Cycling waterproofs only seem to be available from most shops in Hi Vis or black. So what colour do you pick?

School children wearing so sort of bright top are easier so spot in the little darlings try to escape. Some parents are happy to leave their brats in pubs but get upset if they wander off from a school trip even if found a few minutes later because the child decided that the dog/shop/pond was more interesting.

Having been in the situation of trying to control the little things I would want them in bright orange boiler suits. Also all chained together to stop any of them "getting lost".
Now you know why I am not Minister for Education".
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Stop and put it on - every time.

Mind you there has to be quite alot of rain falling for it to be worth putting a waterproof on.
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by TonyR »

I saw another variant today. Someone cycling along in what appeared to be a bright yellow shower cap. No helmet underneath as far as I could tell, just a shower cap and apart from that normal clothes.
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Slow Loris
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by Slow Loris »

I hope he was armed with a soap on a rope :mrgreen:. A waterproof hat and saddle cover in one - and probably more chance of being noticed by motorists!
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by Thomas125 »

I have to wear a hi-viz vest in work, so I just wear it to work on the bike as well. Got a mesh one so it's not really any hotter.

Not sure about the benefits in the sunshine, main reason is so I don't forget it on the way in :!: Have to wear it to the clock machine on the way out so it just stays on.

Definitely helps in the dark nights though.
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RickH
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by RickH »

With groups of primary school kids, once there is a school policy that they should wear HiVis when walking outside school (& I'm not entering that argument just here), it actually makes better use of the time if they just keep the tabbards on until they are back in school rather than spending 5 minutes collecting them off the children when they arrive wherever they are going (plus a member of staff possibly having to keep hold of 20 or 30 tabbards) & possibly 10 minutes getting the children back into them to return to school.

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AlaninWales
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by AlaninWales »

TonyR wrote:I saw another variant today. Someone cycling along in what appeared to be a bright yellow shower cap. No helmet underneath as far as I could tell, just a shower cap and apart from that normal clothes.

Sure it wasn't a hi-viz buff? I have one - it apparently looks really confusing on security cameras (said the airport security who pulled me over to find out what it was :lol: ).
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bigjim
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Re: Triumph of HiViz over common sense?

Post by bigjim »

I like to see people riding bikes in everyday clothes. On my regular training [but I'm not training] so, excercise run I see a chap who rides a decent road bike but he has normal trousers with bicycle clips and an ordinary shirt with the sleeves rolled up. Sometimes he has an old suit jacket on. No helmet. Big saddlebag. He sets a fair old pace and seems quite happy.
We also have locally a character who does a lot of the local gardens in, say, 5 mile square area. I see him all over the shop. He rides a hybrid bike and carries his limited amount of gardening gear with him. I've even seen him with a large Flymo lawnmower over one shoulder, riding one handed and balancing the mower with the other hand.
I live in a very, very heavily trafficked area. He roams around in all weathers, weaves through the crazy traffic. Never gets beeped or shouted at. He wears old gardening togs, boots and a flat cap. Been doing this for at least 30 years and still with us.
Makes you think. :)
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