E petition surfacing redressing

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pete75
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by pete75 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:OK - maybe surface dressing is wonderful. Why do they have to leave a half inch of gravel scattered all over the road.

Can they not roll it in?


I think they have to put excess on to make the stuff work into the tar properly when they roll it. Round here they' now go over with a mechanical sweeper to remove the excess - after a number of accidents each summer when surface dressing left sometimes an inch or so of loose gravel on the road. It wasn't helped by the road menders putting the slow down loose chippings signs exactly where the loose chippings started.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

As far as I can tell they don't roll it at all here, and they certainly don't do any sweeping of excess.

They just leave a wide swathe of deep gravel all over the road. The car tyres then flick that up at everyone around as they ignore the "10mph, skid risk" signs, and overtake me as I'm doing more than that (and struggling since the surface is so poor.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Mark1978
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by Mark1978 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:As far as I can tell they don't roll it at all here, and they certainly don't do any sweeping of excess.

They just leave a wide swathe of deep gravel all over the road. The car tyres then flick that up at everyone around as they ignore the "10mph, skid risk" signs, and overtake me as I'm doing more than that (and struggling since the surface is so poor.


Yup, nobody sticks to 10mph. Cue me struggling in inch deep gravel, and a panel van comes past at about 40mph kicking up stones and plumes of dust in it's wake; wasn't impressed.
thirdcrank
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by thirdcrank »

Afaik, it's the tar dressing which is important to the road because it waterproofs it, if done correctly. The chippings are just to improve the friction - smooth tar has a very low coefficient of friction (if that's the correct expression.) The irony is that if the loose chippings are not promptly removed, the resulting dunes are about as skid-resistant as surface ice.

On the subject of reinstatements after roadworks, it's my impression that under the current New Roads and Streetworks Act, (NRSWA) whereby statutory undertakers certify their own reinstatements, these are generally better than they used to be under the previous Public Utilities and Streetworks Act (PUSWA) whereby the utilities did a temporary repair and the highway authority made it permanent if they got a round tuit. IME, many of the problems arise when the original road fails around a decent reinstatement.
===========================================
PS AFAIK, the speed limit is mainly to prevent skidding on the loose material, rather than to reduce the flying debris.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

It's not a speed limit, it's just a warning sign.

It should be there as a proper limit, and the thrown debris should be noted as one of the reasons.

The dust is annoying and nasty, but the gravel can really hurt - and if I wasn't wearing glasses...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
iviehoff
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by iviehoff »

[XAP]Bob wrote:OK - maybe surface dressing is wonderful. Why do they have to leave a half inch of gravel scattered all over the road.

They don't have to do that at all. What you are seeing there is incompetence.

The difficult question, as ever, is how do we get people do things properly.
Mark1978
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Location: Chester-le-Street, County Durham

Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by Mark1978 »

thirdcrank wrote:Afaik, it's the tar dressing which is important to the road because it waterproofs it, if done correctly. The chippings are just to improve the friction - smooth tar has a very low coefficient of friction (if that's the correct expression.) The irony is that if the loose chippings are not promptly removed, the resulting dunes are about as skid-resistant as surface ice.


Dunes is a good term. There's a road I regularly use which was dressed a few years ago and has ridges parallel to the direction of travel, most unpleasant to walk on, I assume from the action of car tyres after it was surfaced.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

iviehoff wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:OK - maybe surface dressing is wonderful. Why do they have to leave a half inch of gravel scattered all over the road.

They don't have to do that at all. What you are seeing there is incompetence.

The difficult question, as ever, is how do we get people do things properly.


I might go and sweep up a local road and return all the gravel to the reception desk of the council.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
pete75
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by pete75 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
iviehoff wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:OK - maybe surface dressing is wonderful. Why do they have to leave a half inch of gravel scattered all over the road.

They don't have to do that at all. What you are seeing there is incompetence.

The difficult question, as ever, is how do we get people do things properly.


I might go and sweep up a local road and return all the gravel to the reception desk of the council.


Yeah like the girls on the reception desk are responsible for the problem................. :?
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
RJS
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by RJS »

Sweep it up and sell it on ebay :wink:
Cheers, Rob.
Pete Owens
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by Pete Owens »

CREPELLO wrote:http://www.highwaysmaintenance.com/SDtext.htm
I didn't appreciate that surface dressing was not common practice until 30 years ago.


I think you misread the section - its just that 30 years ago they used to use tar rather than bitumen and it isn't just a UK thing.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pete75 wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
I might go and sweep up a local road and return all the gravel to the reception desk of the council.


Yeah like the girls on the reception desk are responsible for the problem................. :?

No, they aren't - but the local papers like a goog photo op - and that might get noticed.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Flinders
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by Flinders »

Our roads here are getting to be awful. A 'namless person in the council' told a friend of mine that they are now so behind with repairs that they are only doing the urgent ones, and the budget doesn't stretch to do even those properly, so they have to patch them knowing the patches will disintegrate and need doing again. It's madness, it doesn't even make financial sense.

Also, we have a tarmac pavement here that is in an appalling state. The elderly or infirm in the village are virtually trapped in their houses when it's wet or icy- they can't get to the bus stop even to get to the shops. We've been complaining about it to the council for years now, as has the Parish Council, and it's got worse and worse- you couldn't get a wheelchair or pram over it unless you were pretty fit and strong.
The council won't do anything, they say it isn't a priority. We've asked them to come and actually look at it. They have refused. We ask how they can know it isn't a priority if they won't come and look at it. They won't answer. We asked why they surface dressed several short dead-end roads here which were in pretty much perfect condition (mystifying the residents). They say they won't tell us. We ask what the priority jobs are. They refuse to tell us.

But hey, they've cut 2% off the rates, and they're celebrating how well they are running everything. :evil:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Organise a mass "walk" round their carpark at going home time.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
RichardPH
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Re: E petition surfacing redressing

Post by RichardPH »

CREPELLO wrote:I would ask that surface dressing is done properly. There's a lot that isn't but in the last few weeks I've come across numerous resurfaced roads here in Shropshire that have been noticeably better in quality. There's been a distinct lack of excess chippings and those that have been laid are even.


I too live in Shropshire and a couple of years back I came across a road that had at least 3/4" thickness of chippings in the region that we cyclists use, I was doing 20 mph+ and it was a very close thing, but I stayed on board. The road gang had gone home and left it in that state overnight. Worst of all the potholed bits had been left untouched. I don't think complaining to the authorities does anything, for a start you must find the responsible person, difficult if not impossible.

Typically with cycling it's an issue local to your own area so I wrote a Mr Angry letter to the local paper. Got a defensive reply in print from a retired road engineer telling me I'd got it all wrong. After researching the subject and replying to his letter with specific complaints, all in the public domain, the road I used as my example was miraculously repaired properly, since then I've not come across an instance of overtly dangerous surface dressing. This may be a co-incidence, but I like to think somebody got a wake-up call to ensure the contractors do the job properly, it's supposed to make the road safer, not more dangerous.

For the record my research came up with the following key points:

1) The reason for this process being used is that it's a cost effective way to seal cracks and prevent further frost damage.
2) The machine that does the laying has 13 microprocessor controlled factors to adjust, each of which has to be correct or the result will be second rate
3) Surplus stones are deliberately left because the traffic is part of the process. Too few stones and the binder will appear at the surface and set smooth and slippery, therefore more stones are better than too few
4) Over the following period [weeks/months?] the traffic rolls the aggregate into a stable and settled pattern. Finally I believe a brush truck is sent round to clear away the stones that motor vehicles have helpfully piled into the path of bicycles.

My advice,write to your local paper, a local issue, embarrass local government if they are at fault. [but do expect to have the pi** taken out of you by your mates for being such an anorak]
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