Cyclist Knocked Over by Van Door

[MattS]

Hi All,

I cycle on the dangerous London streets. A few months ago I was knocked over on the notorious Elephant and Castle Roundabout (Not severely but enough to go to hospital for the night and need spinal exams).

I'm not an aggressive cyclist, I prefer to get to places safely - especially in London but after being hit I decided to get a GoPro. Yesterday on my way to work I was on a single lane street cycling at maybe 10 mph and the passenger of a van (company vehicle) opened his door without looking as I was going past. It hit me and has quite badly damaged my arm (No breaks or fractures - thankfully - but very sore).

I've had to take a few days off work and there is some damage to my bicycle. The forks were chipped and the handle bars were damage on one side due to the door.

I have the footage on camera and clearly shows no fault of myself - I also have the drivers and passengers details and insurance information and have filled a police report.

My question is about getting my bike fixed though - How do I go about doing this?

Do I need to get in contact with a solicitor? If so, will one of those injury lawyers for you people work? Or do I need to contact the companies insurance and see what they say first?

I have no experience with this so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks very much in advance!

[[XAP]Bob]

Driver's insurance (may well be company provided) will be the final payer, but your claim is against the driver themselves.

HC: 239

...If you have to stop on the roadside:

you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic

Laws CUR reg 98, 105 & 107, RVLR reg 27 & RTA 1988 sect 42

They will try to fob you off, but the law is on your side.


PS - Not to lay any blame with you - but you might want to consider passing parked vehicles wider in the future, because this happens, and if there is a bus following you then it doesn't bear thinking about.

[MattS]

Thank you so much for the reply.

I usually leave a car width where I can or use my hornit horn to make drivers aware. Unfortunately it was a single width road and he was stopped on a single yellow so I gave all the space I could. He was parked half on the curb but there wasn't a great amount of space. I think the policeman used the word "incompetent driving".

So I do need to chase the insurance company myself? I won't need to go to a solicitor. Is it worth even bother trying these injury claims? Only because I've lost two days of pay. Not sure if it's worth my time to chase this sort of stuff.

Minimum I want is my bike fixed!

Thanks again.

[[XAP]Bob]

Get the time off and the injuries documented - then claim for the bike directly, and mention that an injury claim will be forthcoming.

That should cause the driver to call in the insurers, and at that point they'll start trying to fob you off. If you are a CTC member (and even if you're not) their legal team are worth a shout - I think RJW (?) are the solicitors used (and they are therefore reasonably experienced with cycle claims).

2 days off work is a reasonable sum of money, and train/car/taxi travel while the bike is off the road.
And then injuries...

Don't jump at the first offer they give.

[iviehoff]

I don't think the previous posters have really exposed what an unclear and deficient area of law you have wandered into through no fault of your own. There is a specific motoring offence of opening a door to damage someone, but it is unclear whether a passenger can commit it, as I don't think there has ever been a prosecution where a passenger opened a door; prosecutions of anyone doing it are rare enough. It is also a pretty minor offence, with small penalties, so when someone was killed by a dooring a couple of years ago, the police tried, unsuccessfully, to prosecute them for manslaughter, as there wasn't a motoring offence of suitable gravity for the seriousness of what happened. It is not clear to me that a driver has any responsibility for the consequences of a passenger opening a door in a stationary vehicle. It is not clear to me that a passenger taking such an action benefits from the motor insurance of the vehicle.

So there is a possibility that the driver's insurer could successfully disclaim any liability to reimburse any claim; the police may not be able to prosecute for any offence. So it could just turn into a personal injury claim between you and the passenger, relying on the passenger's own resources to fund any successful claim, which can be pointless if it difficult to enforce payment against them. But I'm not a lawyer, you should talk to the CTC lawyer as I'm just guessing.

[thirdcrank]

... . Is it worth even bother trying these injury claims? Only because I've lost two days of pay. Not sure if it's worth my time to chase this sort of stuff.

Minimum I want is my bike fixed!

...

If you don't feel your injuries are significant, nobody else will. In general, it costs more to fix people than pedal cycles so the payouts for personal injuries tend to be higher than for bike repairs. If you intend doing anything about this - and it's up to you to decide whether it's worth your while - you need advice from a solicitor specialising in dealing with cycling personal injury cases. Any decent solicitor will give you a short and frank assessment of the strength of your case without charge.

If you negotiate with an insurance company yourself for the cost of your repairs only, you need to be prepared to take it all the way yourself if they don't cough up: remember, they have no reason to pay out anything simply on the basis of a third party claim made by a private individual. By "take it all the way" I mean making a claim through the small claims procedure. It's relatively straightforward and there's a full explanation of how to do it on this link, but you do need the personal motivation and bottle to go through with it.

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

Incidentally, a report to the police won't trigger any of this. If the police have completed a report, that can provide valuable evidence for a civil claim for compo and if there's been a successful prosecution that can also be helpful, but only you can make a claim.
========================================================================================
ivihoff posted faster than me but I don't think it affects what I'm saying.

[karlt]

If it's not covered under motor insurance, then it should be covered under the passenger's personal liability section on their house contents insurance, assuming they have some.

[JimL]

You can use the CTC accident helpline whether a member or not and take it from there.

If you are not claiming for personal injuries I would guess it is quicker to deal with the insurance company direct (if they admit liability) .

[broadway]

I don't think the previous posters have really exposed what an unclear and deficient area of law you have wandered into through no fault of your own. There is a specific motoring offence of opening a door to damage someone, but it is unclear whether a passenger can commit it, as I don't think there has ever been a prosecution where a passenger opened a door; prosecutions of anyone doing it are rare enough. It is also a pretty minor offence, with small penalties, so when someone was killed by a dooring a couple of years ago, the police tried, unsuccessfully, to prosecute them for manslaughter, as there wasn't a motoring offence of suitable gravity for the seriousness of what happened. It is not clear to me that a driver has any responsibility for the consequences of a passenger opening a door in a stationary vehicle. It is not clear to me that a passenger taking such an action benefits from the motor insurance of the vehicle.

So there is a possibility that the driver's insurer could successfully disclaim any liability to reimburse any claim; the police may not be able to prosecute for any offence. So it could just turn into a personal injury claim between you and the passenger, relying on the passenger's own resources to fund any successful claim, which can be pointless if it difficult to enforce payment against them. But I'm not a lawyer, you should talk to the CTC lawyer as I'm just guessing.

If the driver was in the van they will be responsible for the actions of their passenger.

[Vorpal]

If it's not covered under motor insurance, then it should be covered under the passenger's personal liability section on their house contents insurance, assuming they have some.

Or by the company that employed the passenger, if it was a business journey?

You can use the CTC accident helpline whether a member or not and take it from there.

If you are not claiming for personal injuries I would guess it is quicker to deal with the insurance company direct (if they admit liability) .

It may be quicker, but insurance companies are quite good at pressuring people to take an early, low offer to avoid hassle, litigation, etc. They may also a be a bit quicker to cough up a reasonable amount with a solicitor involved. If nothing else, there is nothing but a little time lost to make a phone call.

I've had to take a few days off work and there is some damage to my bicycle. The forks were chipped and the handle bars were damage on one side due to the door.

I have the footage on camera and clearly shows no fault of myself - I also have the drivers and passengers details and insurance information and have filled a police report.

My question is about getting my bike fixed though - How do I go about doing this?

Do I need to get in contact with a solicitor? If so, will one of those injury lawyers for you people work? Or do I need to contact the companies insurance and see what they say first?

Personally, I would contact a solicitor, first. They are familiar with the legal processes involved and can advise you about the process, even if you do not decide to use them.

Also, go to a GP and get your injuries checked out, even if they don't appear to be serious, and especially if they have caused you to take any time off work. This applies whether you call a solicitor or not. Take pictures of any bruising.

If it were me, I would claim for
-the bike (you deserve to be put back into the same position as before the accident)
-the time off work (or if your employer paid you for the time off, they can make a claim)
-the injury

Call the police and ask them if they will fine or prosecute the driver. Offer your camera footage as evidence. Get an incident number.

Get an estimate of repair cost from a cycle shop (or two). Also make sure that there isn't any invisible damage to the frame and forks.

Document everything you do, including the time to take the bike to the shops for evaluation, cost of alternative transport while your bike is out service, even take away that your ordered because your arm hurt too much to cook (keep receipts).

There are other threads on this forum that may have useful information...
instructing a lawyer viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49627
how to complain about bad driving viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69901

Good Luck and speedy recovery.

[Postboxer]

Back when I used to work for a solicitors, about 11 years ago, I had a claim similar to this, my client was driving down the road when a passenger opened the door into their path with no time to avoid it, smashing up the front of the car. The driver had been in the car at the time and had warned their passenger not to open the car as they'd seen my client coming. The other insurer accepted liability, although the person dealing with it was quite incompetent as they tried to argue liability for a while even though their drivers statements said that my client was already visible when the car door was opened.

So I assume in this case you'll have better luck than me and the other party's insurer should accept liability promptly. It's in their best interest to deal with it as quickly as possible to keep their costs down.

[chris_suffolk]

I was involved in a road accident a couple of months back. Fortunately his insuarance company admitted liability, but at the same time they advised me to use a solicitor. I instructed one under my house insurance policy - doesn't count as a claim.

Had to provide quotes for damage to the bike, and got money for that inside a month, they are not interested in actually seeing the repairs done, so for slight damage you could accept it and pocket the cash. For my injuries the solicitor has instructed an independant GP to assess my injuries in a week or so, and we will go from there. Guess there will be some debate back and forth to arrive at a figure.

Keep a diary of everything, calls to police, insurance companies, activities you can't do, pain levels (out of 10) everytime you suffer any, out of pocket expenses such as medicine, dressings, fuel costs for trips to the shop to mend the bike etc etc, then you can present the whole lot to the solicitor for payment.

Good luck

Chris

[irc]

Dooring covered by a CTC Q&A here ...


http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/fil ... 401061.pdf

[MattS]

Hi all,

thanks for all the great responses. I wanted to update you all to the situation (as it may help - hopefully not however for your own future precedent).

The driver was responsible for the passengers actions and has taken responsibility (mainly due to the fact I had the whole thing on camera showing that it was in no way my fault).

I also contacted a solicitor (CAMS - Cycling Accident Management Services). They were nice on the phone and I am waiting for them to assess my claim.

After contacting them I was contacted by the other parties insurance to say that as the driver has accepted liability and that I am free to fix my bike, charge any expenses for travel whilst my arm heals and in the future talk about the fee due to my pain and suffering. They also offered to pay for my days of work (although it's likely to come out of my companies sick leave).

They seemed relatively okay - no talk of money at the moment but very pushy to settle as soon as possible. I've tried to hold back until the solicitors get back to me about the claim. I've taken my bike to a shop (literally at the end of my road) to get a quote as to the repairs and to check the safety of my bike - I don't want to just charge for the cosmetic issues, I want to check the frame has no stress marks etc.

I'll post back when I've heard more.

[[XAP]Bob]

IIRC you can do the "material" claim and settle that without prejudice to the "injury" claim (i.e. mention that this is purely for the material damage, and injuries are being assessed)