Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.

Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Jughead » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:31 am

Cycling into Glasgow on a lovely, sunny day. Me and the bike. Wonderful. 3 guys from the local CC club caught up like extras from Robocop. You know the sort of thing: helmets, glasses, gloves. cameras, gps computers, protective clothing and stuff. Adverts on bikes. Talked to one of them briefly who was disappointed I wasn't wearing a helmet. Told me 'they' were in talks with the police and that the police would soon be introducing a £30 fine for cyclists not wearing a helmet. Why do these people think they can speak for other cyclists because they are in a CC? I'm 50 this year and have never wore a helmet. What is it with this country that so called experts need to tell you how to behave. Precisely the reason why I don't belong to a CC.
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Cunobelin » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:43 am

Which CC?

It might be worth a few emails requesting information about these negotiations and the statement made on their behalf
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Cunobelin » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:47 am

..... and where are your bell, reflectors, and lights?

I am legally riding without a helmet - you are riding illegally without reflectors......
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby eileithyia » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:39 am

I had this a couple of years, and decided I would go on the attack rather than defensive. Pointed out I did not criticise them for their choice of headgear and that I would prefer not to be criticised for mine.....
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby [XAP]Bob » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:02 am

Cunobelin wrote:..... and where are your bell, reflectors, and lights?

I am legally riding without a helmet - you are riding illegally without reflectors......


Bell is only at point of sale, others are after sunset only..

RVLR 1989 4,3,C
(3) Nothing in these Regulations shall require any lamp or reflector to be fitted between sunrise and sunset to–
(c)a pedal cycle,
Last edited by [XAP]Bob on Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Redvee » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:04 am

Jughead wrote:Told me 'they' were in talks with the police and that the police would soon be introducing a £30 fine for cyclists not wearing a helmet.


How can you be fined for something not illegal, would love to see the judge's comments if someone contested this and took it to court, unless this is part of Scottish Independance.
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby bovlomov » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:49 am

Redvee wrote:... unless this is part of Scottish Independance.

This is possible. As politicians realise they haven't the power to change anything important (at least, without upsetting their backers or breaking international treaties) they resort to micro-management. A Scottish parliament is more likely to support helmet legislation than to (for example) control press ownership.
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Thermostat9 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:54 pm

Jughead wrote:.... extras from Robocop. You know the sort of thing: helmets, glasses, gloves. cameras, gps computers, protective clothing and stuff. Adverts on bikes. Talked to one of them briefly who was disappointed I wasn't wearing a helmet.

Last person who tried that on me got told to do the other thing (in proper Anglo-Saxon that would probably be censored by some internet nanny if I actually type what I said - but was something along the lines of 'go and make love to yourself' :wink: ) Thankfully there are enough people round here just being normal cyclists and not wearing helmets, that I am not that unusual and the 'take it way too seriously' types would soon be outnumbered!

BTW, I'm 53 going grey and neither my wife nor I have ever owned a bicycle helmet, let alone wear one. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby thirdcrank » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:44 pm

Jughead wrote:Cycling into Glasgow ... the police would soon be introducing a £30 fine for cyclists not wearing a helmet. ...


I've not heard any mention of this being proposed for England and Wales. Presumably this is planned for Scotland only. :? Some sort of post-independence imposition, perhaps. :?
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Tonyf33 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:18 pm

I wear gloves, sunglasses, lycra, clip in shoes just to pop to the PO about 3/4 mile away as it's a darn sight quicker and easier than walking and takes me no amount of time more than putting non cycling specific clothes on. So I'm not sure why people get all het up about what someone is wearing clothes wise when they go cycling. However I don't nor have ever worn a helmet, don't need one, have never felt the need for one, won't wear one even if some idiot brings in a law.

I'd rather go to prison believing in my personal rights than be subjected to blind and frankly unwarranted bull dust laws that state that I 'have' to wear one.
As for Scotland, well they can just leave the UK if they wish, that's their populations right, however if they decide that they 'need' a bicycle helmet law then I won't be making any 'foreign' holidays up there because there is nothing in this universe that could pursuade or force me to wear a plaggy hat :evil:
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Mick F » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:36 pm

It sounds like a good marketing ploy at the border.
LEJOGers cross the border and have to buy or rent a helmet. :lol:
I might buy a Portacabin and park it in a layby just north of Carlisle full of plastic hats to sell the the passing cyclists!
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Psamathe » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:57 pm

Jughead wrote:...Told me 'they' were in talks with the police and that the police would soon be introducing a £30 fine for cyclists not wearing a helmet.

And you believed them.

I don't think this can be set-up by a cycling group. Similarly, I don't think the Police can introduce on-the-spot fines for complying with the law. I think it would be up to the government to introduce a law before the Police have any power to act.

And any cycling group wanting to put pressure of the law-makers would have to be "talking to the government" which would almost certainly operate an open consultation (open to all interested parties) before introducing any legislation on which the Police would then be able to act.

And no doubt Cycling Scotland would have something to say given their stated policy "Cycling Scotland’s Position on Cycle Helmets - We continue to support those who choose to wear cycle helmets but remain strongly opposed to any move toward helmet compulsion.". And, I wonder who would hold greater influence with government, some local CC group or Cycling Scotland (plus many other nationwide cycling organisations).

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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Cunobelin » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:07 pm

Psamathe wrote:
Jughead wrote:...Told me 'they' were in talks with the police and that the police would soon be introducing a £30 fine for cyclists not wearing a helmet.

And you believed them.

I don't think this can be set-up by a cycling group. Similarly, I don't think the Police can introduce on-the-spot fines for complying with the law. I think it would be up to the government to introduce a law before the Police have any power to act.

And any cycling group wanting to put pressure of the law-makers would have to be "talking to the government" which would almost certainly operate an open consultation (open to all interested parties) before introducing any legislation on which the Police would then be able to act.

And no doubt Cycling Scotland would have something to say given their stated policy "Cycling Scotland’s Position on Cycle Helmets - We continue to support those who choose to wear cycle helmets but remain strongly opposed to any move toward helmet compulsion.". And, I wonder who would hold greater influence with government, some local CC group or Cycling Scotland (plus many other nationwide cycling organisations).

Ian


Which is why I suggested above that identifying and then contacting the club to "clarify" the statement made on their behalf
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby pjclinch » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:12 am

Tonyf33 wrote:I wear gloves, sunglasses, lycra, clip in shoes just to pop to the PO about 3/4 mile away as it's a darn sight quicker and easier than walking and takes me no amount of time more than putting non cycling specific clothes on.


Maybe you're a naturist in your own home, in which case fair enough, but most people are already wearing something before they decide the post office needs a visit. My choice of general purpose clothing takes in bike trips as well as walking, getting the tea, doing light gardening etc. so getting special gear on would involve removing my general clothes and putting on cycle specific ones, which would give me a pretty healthy start on the way to the post office if I didn't bother.

Tonyf33 wrote:As for Scotland, well they can just leave the UK if they wish, that's their populations right, however if they decide that they 'need' a bicycle helmet law then I won't be making any 'foreign' holidays up there because there is nothing in this universe that could pursuade or force me to wear a plaggy hat :evil:


There's no sign up here that there's a particular desire to impose that sort of idiocy here. Cycling Scotland is the official government cycling promotion agency and their helmet policy is that mandatory helmets should never happen. They were recently hauled over the coals by the ASA for featuring non-helmeted wearers in a TV ad, but they stood their ground and the ASA got hauled right back over the same coals. Thanks to the advice of CS, Road Safety Scotland's web site changed their advice away from saying helmets were "essential" to a note saying they may help in the event of an accident, and that they do nothing to stop an accident. Spokes, probably the most influential rider group in Scotland (based in Edinburgh and the Lothians), will not advertise any event with a helmet requirement. And so on... so I'm rather bemused by these particular chancers taking it on themselves to police a non-existent and largely unwanted helmet requirement.

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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Audax67 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:33 am

Dogs bark, caravans pass. If they want to waffle on about helmets that's their look-out: I've decided I don't much care about what happens to other people's crania as long as I'm not going to skid on their contents.

FWIW I usually wear a helmet: apart from anything else it makes a handy framework for carrying my head torch, and with a rain cover on it provides a very pleasant microclimate on a cold, wet day.
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