Nightmare drive

[Graham]

One thing that nobody seems to have mentioned . . . . is the effect of being in any group on the behaviour of its individual members.

Yep, I've seen some memorably extraordinary behaviour from people cycling in groups. It appears to have a distinct effect on the behaviour of some cyclists . . . . . rather similar to when some people sit at the controls of a motor vehicle.

One thing that seems obvious to me is that there's no real reason for this road to be open to general motor traffic.

The Bealach is now a popular tourist attraction bringing tourist traffic and ££s to the western side of the peninsula.
It can be argued that the "new" road on the northern coast of the peninsula, which created a loop around the coast actually helped prevent economic stagnation and de-population.
( Although that is pure speculation ! It would be interesting to hear from someone who really knows the place. )

[road] could be restricted to local farm traffic etc., leaving it safer for cyclists and walkers. That's never going to happen.

Agreed

[Mark1978]

Humans do indeed behave significantly differently in a group to the way which which perhaps all members of the group would behave if they were acting as an individual. That is especially exemplified when it comes to those outside the group, as the needs of others in the group take precedence over outsiders. So it's quite possible that no one rider would wish to stop for fear they get left behind by the rest of the group.

That said we are considering the case of a single car coming up to cyclists, but it's also possible from the cyclists point of view that they'd already had to let by an endless stream of cars, of which they was just one more and they wanted to get on with their ride without endless stopping.

[Ben@Forest]

Something I've been meaning to post here for a couple of days is a story my Dad always used to tell me when we were driving up Bury Hill near Arundel, West Sussex. His father (my grandfather) told him that when some cars got to Bury Hill they would turn round and reverse up the hill, reverse being their lowest gear. This would have been the late 1920s and 1930s and my grandfather was a policeman so I assume the story is true.

I'm sure that some people in more powerful cars were irritated having to follow small, low horsepower cars reversing up the hill, and perhaps even letters were written to motoring magazines about it, it would certainly have been a topic on internet forums should such things have existed. So I guess some things never change.

[661-Pete]

...when some cars got to Bury Hill they would turn round and reverse up the hill, reverse being their lowest gear.

I remember reading the same thing about the Hardknott: this would have been in the 1960s. I know Bury Hill - not a road I'd care to cycle on - but it's not particularly steep: wouldn't pose a problem to most cyclists if it weren't for the traffic (In case anyone's planning a ride thereabouts, Houghton Lane is a good alternative).

The cars on the L2B veteran car run often come to grief on quite modest slopes, such as Clayton Hill on the A273. I suppose cars were much less reliable in those days.

[squeaker]

What about hybrid or electric cars? Never driven one myself, but I thought that engine braking = regenerative braking was the norm here.

Engine braking != regenerative braking.

Not! Both apply a retarding force to the vehicle, but the former just converts kinetic energy to heat, the latter will (mostly) convert kinetic energy to a stored form (eg battery potential) for later use. Unfortunately current electric vehicle batteries can not accept the power (energy per unit time) required for heavy retardation (or control on a steep hill) or usefully fast charging.

[Bicycler]

I know the pass is no longer the only road to Applecross but all vehicles having to use the coast road instead would involve many of them making a massive detour. Closing the pass to through motor traffic might seem a bit extreme.

[Vorpal]

I know the pass is no longer the only road to Applecross but all vehicles having to use the coast road instead would involve many of them making a massive detour. Closing the pass to through motor traffic might seem a bit extreme.

It's only a bit extreme in a motor-vehicle-centric culture. It's common in Scandinavia.

[Mark1978]

It's an extra 20 miles around, again mostly on single track, might be reasonable if the diversion route was of significantly better quality, but then Applecross isn't exactly a major population centre.

http://goo.gl/maps/Ib3Bx it's a pretty amazing road to drive, and not too difficult due it being very open so you can see oncoming traffic a long way off.

I suspect if the road was closed to motor traffic maintenance would drop to zero and we'd get up with a dirt track unridable by road bikes.

[661-Pete]

I know the pass is no longer the only road to Applecross but all vehicles having to use the coast road instead would involve many of them making a massive detour. Closing the pass to through motor traffic might seem a bit extreme.

I just took a look on Google at the eastern end of the Bealach na Ba road, and there's even a sign suggesting the alternative low-level route to road users! So it must be a viable alternative.

Notice the reference to 'learner drivers'. I reckon it's not the first time one of the motoring organisations has been called out for a burnt-out clutch, on this road!

[Bicycler]

In winter, for bigger vehicles, for those who would end up with £400 bills for clutches ( ) then yes it is a wise choice to go round. For the ordinary residents of Applecross it would mean even greater isolation and a huge blow to the tourist industry on which they depend. Also have we thought about whether it would just make the single-track coast road intolerable for cyclists?

[Cyril Haearn]

I heard the one about vehicles having to reverse up a steep hill (Arthog hill) because the reverse gear is the lowest. Is it true, does anyone from back then know?

I think the old cars were much better than the new ones, I remember cyclng up Bwlch Oerddrws past a Morris Minor that had overheated. The driver could do nothing but wait half an hour and find a stream to top-up the radiator. I was enjoying my tea and sausages in Dolgellau when he got there much later.

And there is now a car called "mini", the new versions are bigger and bigger, surely the name is wrong. Back then there was a super spacious car called the MAXI with front wheel-drive (pulls you out of trouble instead of pushing you into it). Or the Ro80.

No need to develop any new or "better" cars after that.

[661-Pete]

And there is now a car called "mini", the new versions are bigger and bigger, surely the name is wrong. Back then there was a super spacious car called the MAXI with front wheel-drive (pulls you out of trouble instead of pushing you into it). Or the Ro80.

There's only ever been one 'mini' as far as I'm concerned:

I learned to drive in one of those (initially - until I took lessons and switched to a Hillman Avenger) - and have to admit I thought it was hideous. Seats so uncomfortable that a long ride would guarantee you a lifetime of sciatica - starter button on the floor - windows which would barely open - no synchromesh on first gear (I wonder how many of today's motorists know how to double-declutch?) Hideous - but a lovable beast all the same. The modern re-makes are a travesty. They're not 'minis', just look-alikes.

Note: this thread is largely about cars, so not an off-topic digression!

[Cyril Haearn]

Thanks Pete: "hideous mini": that is just what we need today, make driving less attractive.

[[XAP]Bob]

It's an extra 20 miles around, again mostly on single track, might be reasonable if the diversion route was of significantly better quality, but then Applecross isn't exactly a major population centre.

http://goo.gl/maps/Ib3Bx it's a pretty amazing road to drive, and not too difficult due it being very open so you can see oncoming traffic a long way off.

I suspect if the road was closed to motor traffic maintenance would drop to zero and we'd get up with a dirt track unridable by road bikes.

So there are two single track routes?

Why not have them both "one way" for motor vehicles?
With big signs saying " oncoming cyclists"

[Vorpal]

What do they do in the winter? The pass must close for snow, at least some years?