Nightmare drive

[661-Pete]

This thread reminds me of an episode of 'family history' of which I'm not particularly proud. Many years ago - it must have been around 1960, when I was a kid - we were having a camping holiday in Scotland. For some reason my mother had to travel up separately on the train, and meet up with us at Kyle of Lochalsh. So it was just my father and us kids in the car, driving along the A87 to Kyle. In those days all roads in the Highlands, even the main A-roads, had stretches of 'single track road with passing places', and there were no alternatives. We were running late and my father was most anxious to get to Kyle before the train came in. Our route was continually blocked by cars drawing caravans and other slow vehicles, and my father took to leaning on his horn for over a minute at a time, in an attempt to force them to pull over. This despite me and my sister pleading with him to 'cool off'. I recall that one caravan-pulling motorist even stopped and angrily got out of his car for some 'words' - an early example of road rage, but fortunately not with fisticuffs.

I often wonder whether I inherited some of my father's short temper. If so, I do my best to contain it when it happens. Certainly I like to believe I've long outlived any habit of hassling other road users. But others must judge me.

Of course, the A87, like other main roads in Scotland, has long since been upgraded to a normal 2-lane main road. But minor roads - especially those on the less-frequented side of a loch - are still of the single-track variety. We were driving on such a road a couple of days ago - on the south side of Loch Tay - and we met a big lorry coming the other way. Quite a lot of manoeuvring to get past, but we managed it without tempers fraying on either side!

It's probably not right to take sides with regard to the OP's incident, but if I had to, I'd side with the cyclists in this case, because of the difficulty of cycling up the Bealach at any time! Share and share alike, true, but understand the other party's needs!

[MichVanNic]

Looks a great ride, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bea ... 299b1c2543

I think if I was cycling up there, if there were one or two cars behind me, I'd pull slowly through the passing places, hoping they'd get past without me stopping, if there were more, I'd pull in and stop and let them all past. Setting off again might be a problem though.

I don't know much about clutches, would it only give up when going up a hill if you were using it?

If I was alone then I might - but as a group there might not be enough room to do so safely - the passing place visible in the above link isn't very large, although the three hairpins are significantly larger

It would have to be a very large group not to fit into one of these passing places, the road is narrow and if you are in a large group, please split up into small cohorts, and be considerate.

There was an incident a few years back with a sportif doing this route then going north via cuirag to sheildag. People were getting a bit carried away in the many decents and there was a nasty smash (no cars involved bikes on bikes) unfortunately this caused a road block both ways and the ambulance couldn't get through.

When traveling these roads in the car occasionally I get a cyclist closing behind me on descents, I pull over to let them through, but they almost never show the same courtesy to vehicles coming up towards them. These road are dangerous with rough ground and drops straight off the Tarmac and very little room for error if you misjudge a gap at speed.

[eileithyia]

Hmmm some years ago I had got 3/4's the way up Rosedale Chimney and was hopeful to claim the victory of making it to the top.... then got baulked by some (expletive removed) driver..... absolutely no way of getting going again... so sorry if I had been one of those riders and attempting to get to the top ... then tough. As someone else said, if you were in no hurry and it sounds unlikely you could have pulled over and let them get on their way first... extending a bit of courtesy yourself????

[Bicycler]

Cyclists are not excused being tooted at if they are being inconsiderate.

Ever heard of two wrongs not making a right? It is arguable whether the cyclists were inconsiderate or they were effectively unable to stop because they would have been unable to re-start. There is no argument when it comes to honking your horn at other road users. It is definitely illegal.

One further point. Lots of people have mentioned the convention of allowing following vehicles to overtake. Nobody has yet mentioned the convention that the vehicle travelling uphill has priority. This convention recognises the inconvenience caused to those travelling uphill by having to stop. This inconvenience is greatly enhanced for cyclists who cannot get going again at all. I'm not sure the former convention is really intended to apply to steep hills where it causes undue inconvenience to the overtaken. At one time in my life I was driving the Wrynose and Hardknott passes on a regular basis* in a car that struggled a bit to start again if forced to stop on the really steep bits (1:3 gradients). Whilst I would use the (unofficial) passing places on the way down to cede priority to those travelling up, I don't think I would have pulled into them on the way up just to let somebody overtake. That could wait for the top. I think this is comparable to the cyclists if the road was really steep.

*without resorting to riding the clutch

[661-Pete]

Incidentally:

I used to be a member of the CTC until a knee problem made me stop cycling so in my long life I have come to know a lot about bikes and cycling ....

Two points. You don't have to be an active cyclist to be a member of the CTC. I know someone who had to give up cycling many years ago after being laid low by MS - however she remains an enthusiastic supporter and is active within the CTC. Secondly: just by being a CTC member doesn't necessarily mean you 'know a lot about bikes'....

I would like to tell the uninitiated some facts about a car....

This may surprise you, but many cyclists, and indeed many members of this forum, are in fact car drivers as well...

Patronising? Never!

[Postboxer]

So can a clutch fail whilst just driving along, up a hill, or is it more likely to fail when changing gear, which, if I was having clutch trouble already, I wouldn't be doing whilst driving up hill.

[LollyKat]

Hmmm some years ago I had got 3/4's the way up Rosedale Chimney and was hopeful to claim the victory of making it to the top.... then got baulked by some (expletive removed) driver..... absolutely no way of getting going again... so sorry if I had been one of those riders and attempting to get to the top ... then tough. As someone else said, if you were in no hurry and it sounds unlikely you could have pulled over and let them get on their way first... extending a bit of courtesy yourself????

+1

Although on most normal single-track roads I let cars past when I can, the bealach is notoriously steep at the top and expecting the bikes to stop (because pulling in would have meant stopping) before they were ready is unreasonable in such circumstances. The OP was on holiday - what was the rush?! If he was going so slowly that he "had" to slip the clutch then the council van wouldn't have run into the back of him if he had stopped.

Or maybe the OP isn't very good at hill starts, in which case he shouldn't have been driving on that road - IIRC there is a big warning sign at the bottom.

Back in the 1960s I learnt to drive on such roads. My father taught me and insisted on various manoeuvres that weren't in the test, e.g. hill starts in reverse, and reversing down a hill and round a sharp corner, the hills being 1-in-5. You had to be able to do such things in those days. At least the Cortina could do it - as a small child in the 50s I can remember that we sometimes had to get out of our little Prefect and push it to get it going again, if we were baulked on a hill by an oncoming car . There weren't so many passing places, and then as now there were inconsiderate drivers. And remember how radiators used to boil?

[Ben@Forest]

I don't think this has been posted yet so here from the Highway Code

155
Single-track roads. These are only wide enough for one vehicle. They may have special passing places. If you see a vehicle coming towards you, or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right. Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can. If necessary, reverse until you reach a passing place to let the other vehicle pass. Slow down when passing pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders.

The "Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can" could be interpreted two ways. It could mean whenever there's a passing place but it could mean whenever the cyclists felt they were able (because they would lose momentum and not be able to get started again).

I think it's the latter and in any case not all single track roads have passing places. There is six miles of single track road from where I live to a larger road, there is not one dedicated passing place, it's wider bits of verge, farm entrances and drives that suffice. What would Mr Trahearn have done then? Whatever actions of the cyclists it is clear Mr Trahearn is in wrong.

[LollyKat]

So can a clutch fail whilst just driving along, up a hill, or is it more likely to fail when changing gear, which, if I was having clutch trouble already, I wouldn't be doing whilst driving up hill.

[XAP]Bob described the clutch as two plates - when driving normally they are firmly meshed together, when you are stopped with the engine running they separate. The OP was trying to drive very slowly by 'slipping' or 'riding' the clutch, which means the two plates were constantly sliding against each other. This generates a lot of heat, blue smoke and quickly wrecks the clutch - as the OP should have known. The end result is that the two plates can't mesh any longer and so the engine power can't be transmitted to the wheels.

[beardy]

As a driver and a motorcyclist, I never slip my clutch for any extended period of time.
Just enough to pull off from starting or when I need more power than is available in that gear in a split second emergency.

If conditions meant that I could not go slow enough uphill, I would stop and wait until there was a long enough strip of road to drive along with the clutch fully engaged and then stop and wait again for another long enough run.

This may be because I fix all my own vehicles with my own sweat (and often blood) and dont just pay for others to do it.

No comments on why you may have to go slow, following a sheep, tractor, walker or slower car but whatever the reason riding the clutch like that isnt a good idea. Probably not much use saying this after you have ruined it.

[Paulatic]

Having just gone up the hill using street view I see many of the passing opportunities are on the RHS. If I was cycling up that hill I would be moving slowly at those points and willing the driver behind to pass me. Most drivers will seize those opportunities but there are always some who can't seem to plan ahead.

[Bicycler]

Back in the 1960s I learnt to drive on such roads. My father taught me and insisted on various manoeuvres that weren't in the test, e.g. hill starts in reverse, and reversing down a hill and round a sharp corner, the hills being 1-in-5. You had to be able to do such things in those days. At least the Cortina could do it - as a small child in the 50s I can remember that we sometimes had to get out of our little Prefect and push it to get it going again, if we were baulked on a hill by an oncoming car . There weren't so many passing places, and then as now there were inconsiderate drivers. And remember how radiators used to boil?

IIRC the Austin 7's reverse gear was lower than its 1st gear, so the correct procedure for going up a very steep hill was to go up in reverse

[Pete Owens]

I wrote the following to the CTC magazine editor but have not had a reply. The clutch cost £404. Wear on the back - unlimited.

At the risk of feeding a Troll...

I used to be a member of the CTC until a knee problem made me stop cycling so in my long life I have come to know a lot about bikes and cycling and I do hope that you will print this letter in full.

Oh dear we know what is coming next...
When a motorist stats off a letter with "I used to be a cyclist" it is rather like when someone starts off "I am not a racist but..."
What comes next is almost certainly a rant about how they were supposedly delayed for a few seconds by a less important road user.

I am now a driver of a small black car. I would like to tell the uninitiated some facts about a car. They are very heavy to move. Movement is made possible by the energy produced by a relatively small engine, working at high revolutions, being passed though a gearbox to either the front or rear wheels. Rather like a bike.

Or rather, unlike a bike in which the effort to propel the vehicle comes from the rider, the driver by lightly pressing a pedal can call on a powerful energy source that can propel them at whatever speed they wish.

Between the engine and gearbox is the clutch. These are there to ensure a smooth transition of power from the engine to the gearbox and to enable the driver to change gear. Clutches are not cooled. Normally this presents no problem because they are only used for a short time. The problem comes if the driver has to 'slip' the clutch for any length of time.

Or more accurately if an incompetent driver chooses to mis-use their clutch.

The clutch contains a friction disc that can become hot or even 'burn out'.

Which is why it would be stupid of a driver to ride their clutch rather than use it for its intended purpose.

That over, I now come to the subject of my letter. On Wednesday 11th June at about 10.30 I drove up the notorious BEALACH NA BA in NorthWest Scotland from the Strathcarron direction. About 1km from the summit at the steepest section I came up to a group of cyclists who were grinding along in their lowest gears. They were barely moving and were wobbling dangerously.

Or rather they were progressing at a speed slower than you would have chosen - and for a steep single lane mountain pass that would be pretty slow in any case.
In what way do you consider the wobbling dangerous?

I fully expected them to pull into one of the many passing places to permit overtaking. This they did not do for many passing places.

If you had ever cycled up a steep hill you would appreciate the difficulty of restarting once you have come to a halt.
We are talking a total of 1km here (even by your own account).

I could not stop because there was a Council vehicle directly behind me.

What about using one of those "many" passing places you have just mentionned.

Eventually they had to stop due to the gradient and I was able to continue with a now smoking clutch.

So they did stop to let you overtake - and within a km of you first encountering them (even by your own account)
Basically this is another case of an arrogant motorist believing their engine makes them more important than the self propelled.

At the top I stopped to let the car cool unable to engage any gear. When the car had cooled I was able to coast down to Applecross

And coasting down a steep mountain pass with a faulty clutch is not exactly a wise move.

where we stopped at the pub. After about three quarters of an hour two of the cyclists, a male and a female arrived. He had a coffee and she had a hot chocolate. My wife, fearing that I might say something, dragged me out and suggested that we went for lunch at Badachro. We never made it because the clutch gave out on the hill above Shieldaig. We were relayed to Aultbea with no drive on a car that is only two years old and has covered only 23,000 miles. We waited, without lunch , for several hours and when the truck arrived we saw the cyclists sail into Shieldaig. No doubt they had had a good day - mine was a nightmare! The car cannot be repaired here and we will be relayed home to Lincoln - a distance of some 513 miles. This is all because some inconsiderate cyclists would not stop in a designated passing place.

No it is because you don't know how to drive. Whether or not you consider being held up for a total distance of less than a km inconsiderate, the way you chose to drive was entirely down to you.

And lets do some maths on the amount of delay that was actually caused to you by these cyclists. As you point out the steep bit is about a km from the summit but is fairly short and eases off fairly soon. You encountered them at the beginning of the steep bit and they pulled off at the point it got seriously steep, which I would guess meant you followed them for about 250m. Even if they had ben going at walking pace (in which case they would have got off and walked) then they would have taken about 3 minutes.

[Bicycler]

At the top I stopped to let the car cool unable to engage any gear. When the car had cooled I was able to coast down to Applecross

And coasting down a steep mountain pass with a faulty clutch is not exactly a wise move.

Good point. I missed the significance of that word. With no engine braking and a long steep descent there's a real risk of overheating brakes. In hindsight it's good that the cost was only measured in £s rather than nights in hospital or broken limbs

[Vantage]

I've never seen a bike with a clutch or an engine with which to use engine braking. A great many of us are going down these same steep hills with paltry rim brakes, whilst heavily loaded, on much thinner tyres and no suspension. Or seatbelts. Or airbags.
It kinda makes you wonder about our sense.