Nightmare drive

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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by Cyril Haearn »

anything that slows the traffic is welcome.

The best speed for cars is zero
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 5 Oct 2019, 3:17pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vantage
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by Vantage »

There's plenty of folk saying the same thing about cyclists, I doubt many of us will be hanging up the pedals any time soon.

With respect to hills being too steep to stop, let someone pass and get moving again, with the exception of steep off-road rutted, boulder strewn tracks, maybe we can take a leaf from this guys book posted by Mick in the steep challenge thread....
http://youtu.be/7_oW-ybRQ88
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MichVanNic
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by MichVanNic »

In this case the cyclist were not observing the code of these narrow Scottish roads. The code is to use passing places to allow traffic behind you to overtake.

This isn't because the traffic behind is impatient, it to to prevent a queue of tragic building up which would cause a blockage if two queues met with no passing place.


In this case the cyclists were very inconsiderate and ignorant of other road users.
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mjr
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by mjr »

R Trahearn wrote:The problem comes if the driver has to 'slip' the clutch for any length of time.

If I was driving and not meeting the current driving test standard, I don't think I'd be announcing it to CTC magazine and forum! :lol: The Driving Standards Agency syllabus for driving category B (cars) includes not "riding the clutch" as part of Learning Outcome 3 "Be able to drive and manoeuvre a vehicle safely" https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... g-cars.pdf
About 1km from the summit at the steepest section I came up to a group of cyclists who were grinding along in their lowest gears.

How close were you to be able to see their sprockets and chainring selections? :shock:
They were barely moving and were wobbling dangerously. I fully expected them to pull into one of the many passing places to permit overtaking.

Did they fall off? No? Not that dangerous a wobble then. They probably should have pulled in, but a debatable cycling wrong doesn't excuse definite driving incompetence. I'm just glad no-one was killed as a result.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by Cyril Haearn »

MichVanNic wrote:

In this case the cyclists were very inconsiderate and ignorant of other road users
.[/quote]


Not sure about that, it is not clear whether they even knew that vehicles were behind them. Maybe they were pleased that one driver was considerate and waited.

Did the driver gently blow his horn to warn them?
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Ellieb
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by Ellieb »

I may be wrong here, but if someone is driving around Applecross.... What exactly is the hurry, or is it just impatience?
james01
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by james01 »

661-Pete wrote: if you slip your clutch for a long period of time on a steep hill, it is going to overheat and may well burn out. If cyclists won't let you pass (and believe me - although I've never been to the Bealach na Ba, I've been to some good climbs in my younger years where I'd find it difficult to stop to let a car pass) - find another way to deal with the situation. Stop in a passing place yourself, spend a bit of time enjoying the view, and give the cyclists enough time to get to the top before continuing your journey. A bit of delay and a bit of hurt pride are a lot cheaper than a new clutch. As you have discovered!

...


Agreed. And what if the slow moving obstruction cannot conveniently be halted in a passing place, eg sheep or cattle being herded along the road? Motorists must sometimes (and for heavens sake it's not very often) bite the bullet and wait :shock: With respect to the original poster, you shouldn't be using clutch-slip to regulate your speed on a steep hill, this is a basic error which any good driving instructor should stress to his pupils.
I regularly cycle up a steep, high-hedged, narrow lane with pull-ins every couple of hundred yards. The lane is a bit of a rat-run for local motorists trying to avoid a busy junction nearby. The lane is so narrow that a wide 4x4 fills the lane, and even a pedestrian must insert himself uncomfortably into the hedge to allow vehicles to pass. When I cycle (slowly) up this hill I usually end up with a convoy behind me. If I stop at a pull-in to allow passing (which ruins my rhythm and requires a strenuous hill-start), I'm often marooned at busy times waiting for a gap in the traffic, thus wasting my time :D . Sometimes I pull over to let cars pass, only to encounter them reversing downhill towards me because they've met an oncoming car, thus forcing me to stop yet again. I've concluded that my only realistic option is to keep going to the top and ignore the abuse.
MichVanNic
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by MichVanNic »

I regularly visit that area and anyone who doesn't know the nature of the roads really can't comment. These are not narrow hedged roads, these are single track 'major' routes connecting the various settlements in the area. The whole ethos regarding traveling on these roads is mutual respect, not holding up traffic and giving way at passing places. In general it works well. It does fall down when inconsiderate people use the more southern attitude of I was here first, I have right to be here you wait your turn etc


When you are riding these roads you need to think you are a car, and behave accordingly give way at passing places etc, pull in when other vehicles come up behind.

Once I was going down Torridon Vally and a car in front would not let me pass, anyway we approached a bus coming the other way. The car in front pulled into the passing place leaving me with nowhere to go.

It's not about having a right to be there but to be respectable to other people who want to use the roads.
ambodach
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by ambodach »

As I live in an area of single track roads this story is very familiar to me. We have the same problem with downright arrogant and inconsiderate cyclists who will not pull into passing places to allow overtaking.We have the same problem with tourist cars of course. Personally I always pull in when cycling or driving and find no problem in doing this. It is in fact illegal to refuse to allow overtaking tho' there have been no prosecutions for some time. It is about time there were a few high profile cases including cyclists if appropriate. No doubt the anti motorist self righteous brigade will now lambast me but so what.
Bicycler
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by Bicycler »

I think some of us can afford ourselves a wry smile at the idea that busy unfenced single-track roads are some kind of Scottish phenomenon :roll:
We can discuss the cyclists' behaviour until the cows come home (presumably over the pass of the cattle :wink: ) but you are always going to encounter problems on roads and you should be able to deal with those problems in a way which doesn't destroy your vehicle. We cyclists should be aware of this more than most. Those of us who seek to remain in one piece have to account for the actions of others, not continue on blithely knowing that other road users should behave properly. This outcome was entirely foreseeable, it ought to have been foreseen.

It is heartening to know that when I next encounter an example of bad driving I can write to the RAC and AA to admonish motorists on my behalf :wink:

ambodach wrote: It is in fact illegal to refuse to allow overtaking tho' there have been no prosecutions for some time. It is about time there were a few high profile cases including cyclists if appropriate.

It's not a specific offence though it arguably comes under the offence of inconsiderate driving/cycling. I have encountered it a few times myself. Quite a few if you count the number of ovine offenders. The problem would be the difficulty in collecting enough evidence. In the grand scheme of road safety, I don't think it's high priority stuff. What I do object to is the number of people who tear down those roads like they are entering a stage of the British Rally Championship. Also, the capacity of stupid drivers to tailgate even when between passing places is amazing. Where exactly do they expect you to go? :evil:
Last edited by Bicycler on 29 Jun 2014, 6:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
Postboxer
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by Postboxer »

Looks a great ride, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bea ... 299b1c2543

I think if I was cycling up there, if there were one or two cars behind me, I'd pull slowly through the passing places, hoping they'd get past without me stopping, if there were more, I'd pull in and stop and let them all past. Setting off again might be a problem though.

I don't know much about clutches, would it only give up when going up a hill if you were using it?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Postboxer wrote:I don't know much about clutches, would it only give up when going up a hill if you were using it?

You're always using it - but it's riding the clutch that's the issue here.

A clutch basically consists of two plates which are pressed together - a bit like a flat brake pad and surface.
Depressing the clutch pedal (or pulling the clutch lever on a m'bike) pulls the plates apart.
One of the pads is connected to the engine and therefore rotates with the output shaft of the engine; the other is connected to the wheels, so it's speed is determined by roadspeed (gearbox excluded for simplicity).
When you are stopped the engine is running and you gently release the clutch the friction between these plates allows some power transfer, but doesn't stall the engine. Once the speed is such that the motor revs are equivalent to the revs from the road then the clutch is no longer "slipping", so there is no more heat generated.
If you can't fully release the clutch then you're in the wrong gear.

On smaller petrol devices (such as a hedge strimmer) the clutch will be fully automatic - probably a centrifugal clutch. That is basically a hub brake, with the hub shell connected to the output and the shoes spun up by the engine. As it revs up the shoes are force outwards by centripetal force (resolved in a non inertial frame of reference) and start to drive the output stage. If there isn't enough power to drive the output the engine slows, but before it stalls the clutch disengages.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Postboxer wrote:Looks a great ride, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bea ... 299b1c2543

I think if I was cycling up there, if there were one or two cars behind me, I'd pull slowly through the passing places, hoping they'd get past without me stopping, if there were more, I'd pull in and stop and let them all past. Setting off again might be a problem though.

I don't know much about clutches, would it only give up when going up a hill if you were using it?



If I was alone then I might - but as a group there might not be enough room to do so safely - the passing place visible in the above link isn't very large, although the three hairpins are significantly larger
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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ArMoRothair
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by ArMoRothair »

Bicycler wrote:It is heartening to know that when I next encounter an example of bad driving I can write to the RAC and AA to admonish motorists on my behalf



^This 8)
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ArMoRothair
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Re: Nightmare drive

Post by ArMoRothair »

R Trahearn wrote:Eventually they had to stop due to the gradient and I was able to continue


In summary: they pulled in and let you pass.

Nothing to see here, move along now.
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