A bit of a death wish?

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Shootist
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A bit of a death wish?

Post by Shootist »

Sunday I was on the A516 (?) near Mickleover, Derby when I saw something in the nearside lane. It was orange, too small to be a car and too large to be a tortoise that someone had painted for a jolly jape. It was relatively easy to see as nothing else was on the road, a dual carriageway. I couldn't make out at all what it was but it was moving relatively slowly. Anyhow, I passed it OK and could then see it was some sort of recumbent trike (I think) with a full fairing. Interesting because I'd like to own a recumbent trike. It's one of the things on my wish list if I win the lottery.

But, here's my point. It seemed to me a very dangerous place to ride such a machine. It was relatively safe, IMO, at the time I was passing, but I could imagine several traffic scenarios where it wouldn't be. Now, I have no doubt that there will be howls of protest about the right to ride on dual carriageways, the responsibilities of other road users, and all the common objections. But who is the one that is going to end up in ICU if he's lucky, or in the Crem? I would advocate some very high vis accessories at the very least. I also now expect further howls of protest about the need for high vis items. But consider this, what if the vehicle I saw had been painted dark grey to match the average road surface?

We can all talk theory about responsibility of drivers, but there is little point in doing so when practice results in 50 yards of cyclist stained tarmac.
Pacifists cannot accept the statement "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.", despite it being "grossly obvious."
[George Orwell]
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

It was orange, and you're suggesting high viz? I despair

Dual carriageways are tually quite decent places to ride, there is always an overtaking lane
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
recumbentpanda
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by recumbentpanda »

Ah, Shootist, it seems you have encountered a velomobile for the first time :D. I can't think of a single one I have ever seen pictured which was painted anything approximating grey. Solid orange, yellow and magenta are popular.

On the other hand millions of cars are painted the exact colour of a wet road (silver grey) or black or other dark colours and yet nobody seems to consider this a problem. Perhaps we should.

And of course, you did after all, by your own account, see this vehicle quite a long way ahead. Long enough indeed, for you to be too far back to make out what it was.

It is I find not uncommon for people encountering recumbents and velomobiles for the first time to have a knee-jerk reaction that they are somehow inherently more dangerous than other kinds of cycle - without really thinking through the logic. I would have thought a velomobile, with its overall and usually brightly coloured bodywork is at least as visible as the average car or motorbike.

Just sayin.
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gaz
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by gaz »

recumbentpanda wrote:.... I can't think of a single one I have ever seen pictured which was painted anything approximating grey. ....

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Mike Sales
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by Mike Sales »

Road engineers expect drivers to see any number of white lines and words painted on the road. These are only a few milimetres above the tarmac and yet drivers do see them.
These include lane divider markings, stop lines, lane direction arrows and destination information and some quite complicated roundabouts.

My recumbent puts my head on a level with a driver's, and so a sports car with the top down will be no higher.

I understand that the velocar might strike you as endangered ( not dangerous ), but if a driver does not "see" a recumbent it is not because it is invisible, but because he is not looking properly.

Don't underestimate the astonishing factor. I find I get more room when I ride the recumbent.
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It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Pete Owens
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by Pete Owens »

Sadly, yet another case of equating "unfamiliar" with "dangerous" - with the inevitable knee-jerk victim-blaming recommendations following.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

and confusing vulnerable with dangerous.

Despite a velo being less vulnerable than a rover safety bicycle...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
reohn2
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by reohn2 »

Pete Owens wrote:Sadly, yet another case of equating "unfamiliar" with "dangerous" - with the inevitable knee-jerk victim-blaming recommendations following.

Agreed.
The lack of live and let live on our roads and ''these things shouldn't be allowed they're too dangerous'' attitude is truly appalling.
Drivers of faster vehicles can see bicycles,'bents,velomobiles,disability scooters/cars,etc,the problem is they don't seem to think they should be there whether thy're allowed by law doesn't seem to enter their myopic outlook on life.
It's definitely a case of motors have more right than the non motors do.
But they don't!
An acquaintance thinks horses shouldn't be on the roads,others I've heard complain about tractors,yet others the same about grass cutters,you name it they'll gripe.
Sweep everything out of the way of the almighty motorvehicle for it's inhabitants are far too important to have to keep a look out for other slower smaller vehicles and who's time is so,so precious as they mustn't be held up even for a few seconds.

If this is the case we have built a very sad society and sunk to new depths that we can't be bothered caring for anything that doesn't fit into the straightjacketed excuse we now call society,Maggie Thatcher was right after all.
Beam me up.
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Shootist
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by Shootist »

reohn2 wrote:The lack of live and let live on our roads and ''these things shouldn't be allowed they're too dangerous'' attitude is truly appalling.


I never said such a thing. I was just remarking on who it is that's likely to be killed.
Pacifists cannot accept the statement "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.", despite it being "grossly obvious."
[George Orwell]
reohn2
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by reohn2 »

Shootist wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The lack of live and let live on our roads and ''these things shouldn't be allowed they're too dangerous'' attitude is truly appalling.


I never said such a thing. I was just remarking on who it is that's likely to be killed.

I didn't say you did.
Though victim blaming was part of the title of the thread and part of your post.
I was commenting on the attitude which pervades our sickly society,with no one doing much to dissuade such attitudes.
We have laws that are being bent at best and totally ignored at worst,with police forces so depleted and politicised as to be practically impotent.
With road users being left to their own devices,which ultimately leads to the ''law of the jungle'' all are indications of a society on the decline into mayhem IMHO.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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mrjemm
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by mrjemm »

I was riding a trike a couple of weeks ago, through country lanes, and went along a straight stretch I know well, past a primary school. As I carried on up the road, I noticed a red Audi (uh-oh, I thought- yup, prejudiced, ey? :wink: ), and slowed down as I approached the oncoming bend, watching them in the mirror all this time, seeing as there was no other traffic about. And this was after all, a red Audi...

Just as I rounded the bend, this car braked quickly behind me, then pulled alongside (just around a blind bend, remember?), and the driver told me how hard I was to notice, dressed in black... Not that my clothes were exactly visible, but anyway. I have no idea what she was looking at all along the straight by the school as I was watching her car approaching (no chance anywhere near the 30 (as it wasn't the flashing lights at that time), judging by the haste). I doubt I was any shorter than half the kids there, sheep, dogs, potholes, goblins, whatever. I know that road well, and it was unusually quiet at that moment, and you'd need special training not to see something ahead there, however bleedin' low. :evil:
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Cunobelin
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by Cunobelin »

I agree fully about how dangerous lack of visibility is!

Yesterday I was on a dual carriageway and because of the Ford Transit van in front of me, I simply could not see the family car in front of the van

What was worse was that the car was grey even further reducing its visibility



These family cars are simply too low and invisible to be on the road with vans and lorries


But, here's my point. It seemed to me a very dangerous place to drive such a car. It was relatively safe, IMO, at the time I was there, but I could imagine several traffic scenarios where it wouldn't be. Now, I have no doubt that there will be howls of protest about the right to drive a small family car on dual carriageways, the responsibilities of other road users, and all the common objections. But who is the one that is going to end up in ICU if he's lucky, or in the Crem? I would advocate some very high vis accessories to increase tis car's visibilityat the very least. I also now expect further howls of protest about the need for high vis items on cars. But consider this, the vehicle I saw was in fact painted dark grey to match the average road surface?

We can all talk theory about responsibility of drivers, but there is little point in doing so when practice results in 50 yards of family stained tarmac.
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Cunobelin
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by Cunobelin »

Would it be really pedantic to point out that contrast is the important thing about visibility.

Against a grey road surface the maximum visibility would be achieved by a white fairing HiViz would be counter productive
TonyR
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by TonyR »

Of course, Shootist being the good road user he is will have slowed down until he could see what this strange orange object was on the road and then acted appropriately to wait behind or pass it.
reohn2
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Re: A bit of a death wish?

Post by reohn2 »

TonyR wrote:Of course, Shootist being the good road user he is will have slowed down until he could see what this strange orange object was on the road and then acted appropriately to wait behind or pass it.


And not thought ''juggler,what's he doing on the road in that thing,I think I'll teach him a lesson and overtake him really close to frighten him''
But surely motorists never do that do they? :roll:
Last edited by reohn2 on 10 Jun 2014, 7:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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