Vote UKIP...

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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby beardy » Sat May 24, 2014 3:43 pm

BNP, EDL or UKIP


It is easy to type all three in one list as if they are the same thing.

However, they are not are they?

UKIP is only asking to put a halt to net immigration (including from within the EU)
just as Labour, Lib Dem and Conservatives want (excluding the EU).

BNP and EDL want something quite different, like repatriation* of non-whites.

* A bit of a silly word as they all come from the UK and have done so for more generations than myself (A true Brit).
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby downfader » Sat May 24, 2014 3:45 pm

grani wrote:I'll just say that as an immigrant in Britain it is getting increasingly uncomfortable here. I think I have contributed significantly to society in the 10 years I have lived here and paid my taxes.

The people I work with and socialize with are generally fine but the media is generally full of stories how I should be gotten rid off. The mere suggestion that you can vote UKIP and claim any sort of moral or political excuse is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

When I see this thread or any mention of BNP, EDL or UKIP it makes me fear for my future as a provider for my family and a citizen of this country. Hope that is clear enough.


At least 4 of my friends are immigrants. They've all said the same as you, and they all fear the scapegoating thats started to happen. One is muslim, two are devout christian. Parts of my family are immigrants.

I often wonder, of those who do hold objectionable views how many think that they would get some of the spoils in reward should things go their parties' way? History tells us many sympathisers often fall by the wayside.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby Trigger » Sat May 24, 2014 3:52 pm

grani wrote:I'll just say that as an immigrant in Britain it is getting increasingly uncomfortable here. I think I have contributed significantly to society in the 10 years I have lived here and paid my taxes.

The people I work with and socialize with are generally fine but the media is generally full of stories how I should be gotten rid off. The mere suggestion that you can vote UKIP and claim any sort of moral or political excuse is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

When I see this thread or any mention of BNP, EDL or UKIP it makes me fear for my future as a provider for my family and a citizen of this country. Hope that is clear enough.


Fear not, Britain is still one of the most inclusive societies in the world, a bit of froth from the knuckle draggers and their rags like the Sun/Mail wont change that, most people don't buy it.

This UKIP nonsense is just protest voting, come the general election I will eat my hat if they even manage a single MP.

Remember last time all the fuss around Nick Griffin and how people were worried the BNP would get a foothold? now look at them, I can't even remember the last time even uttered his or his parties name.

This big con that Farage pulls- making him look like an ordinary blokey bloke down the pub who you'd like to have a pint and chin wag with - is complete subterfuge, he comes from the same toady ilk as all the other Bullingdon cretins that currently hold the reins.

I voted Green by the way, not only do I agree with their politics but our local candidate is a German immigrant so a fitting poke in the eye to toady Farage and his band of wrong 'uns.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby grani » Sat May 24, 2014 3:54 pm

beardy wrote:
BNP, EDL or UKIP


It is easy to type all three in one list as if they are the same thing.

However, they are not are they?

UKIP is only asking to put a halt to net immigration (including from within the EU)
just as Labour, Lib Dem and Conservatives want (excluding the EU).

BNP and EDL want something quite different, like repatriation* of non-whites.

* A bit of a silly word as they all come from the UK and have done so for more generations than myself (A true Brit).


Semantics!

They all fundamentally want the same thing and I think you know that full well. It is useful to serve xenophobia and racism in a socially palatable wrapping. Hence we get BNP packaged as UKIP.

Apart from immigration I think that a great civilized society should be judged on how it treats its weakest.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby downfader » Sat May 24, 2014 3:56 pm

beardy wrote:
BNP, EDL or UKIP


It is easy to type all three in one list as if they are the same thing.

However, they are not are they?

UKIP is only asking to put a halt to net immigration (including from within the EU)
just as Labour, Lib Dem and Conservatives want (excluding the EU).

BNP and EDL want something quite different, like repatriation* of non-whites.

* A bit of a silly word as they all come from the UK and have done so for more generations than myself (A true Brit).


Rightwing they still are. We know this from their recent talk of:

- removing maternity leave rights
- abolishing the human rights act
- support for the TTIP deal
- trying to get a blogger arrested
- privatising the NHS
- Remember that banking deregulation that lead to financial collapse in 2008? UKIP want more deregulation and lower taxes for the rich.
- Fox hunting?

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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby beardy » Sat May 24, 2014 4:01 pm

It's not semantics, you are saying that people who wish to limit immigration are the same as those who wish to expel citizens on racial grounds. The two are quite different.

I would love to go and live back in Australia because life was a lot better there, they will not let me in because I am not "of use to them", a perfectly sensible decision and not a racist one.
Why should they share their higher standard of living with people from outside as sharing means they are giving some of their wealth away?

I am not denying UKIP are right wing so are the Conservative party.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby grani » Sat May 24, 2014 4:07 pm

beardy wrote:It's not semantics, you are saying that people who wish to limit immigration are the same as those who wish to expel citizens on racial grounds. The two are quite different.

I would love to go and live back in Australia because life was a lot better there, they will not let me in because I am not "of use to them", a perfectly sensible decision and not a racist one.
Why should they share their higher standard of living with people from outside as sharing means they are giving some of their wealth away?

I am not denying UKIP are right wing so are the Conservative party.


I am not going to give you any time on this as you know full well what you want out of this discussion.

Mix in a few anecdotes to illustrate some useful point. I am not an idiot mate!
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby beardy » Sat May 24, 2014 4:12 pm

Nor am I a UKIP supporter or of "pure blood".
I am married to a non-UK citizen, my children have dual nationaility.
I have worked abroad on many occasions, often without permits.

I just dont think you can brand somebody a racist because they want to halt immigration.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby irc » Sat May 24, 2014 4:14 pm

TonyR wrote:? At least vote for someone who know what they are for rather than only what they are against.


There is a list of things they are for on their website.

http://www.ukip.org/issues
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby TonyR » Sat May 24, 2014 4:28 pm

Edwards wrote:Apart from me being of British decent I agree whole heartedly with this statement.


+1

I love the vibrant multicultural & diverse place Britain has become and am embarrassed by and ashamed of the Little England mentality.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby TonyR » Sat May 24, 2014 4:36 pm

irc wrote:
TonyR wrote:? At least vote for someone who know what they are for rather than only what they are against.


There is a list of things they are for on their website.

http://www.ukip.org/issues


Yes, and I wonder if most people have actually read them before voting for them. Its the Greek economic policy - lots of public spending and cut taxes to pay for it - and a Chinese environmental policy - get rid of the green subsidies and invest them in fracking. And as for their cycling policies best not said.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby grani » Sat May 24, 2014 4:39 pm

beardy wrote:Nor am I a UKIP supporter or of "pure blood".
I am married to a non-UK citizen, my children have dual nationaility.
I have worked abroad on many occasions, often without permits.

I just dont think you can brand somebody a racist because they want to halt immigration.


It is not socially acceptable to be openly racist hence there is UKIP.

Anyway, I have cycling and the CTC forum for one of the things that connects me to British people and seeing UKIP mentioned here offends me immensely.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby kwackers » Sat May 24, 2014 4:42 pm

TonyR wrote:and a Chinese environmental policy - get rid of the green subsidies and invest them in fracking.

I think that's an insult to the Chinese. They're massively ramping up their renewables expenditure whilst we're cutting ours.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby beardy » Sat May 24, 2014 4:48 pm

I love the vibrant multicultural & diverse place Britain has become


That is one of the things that people say, however I dont see it like that. Forty years ago as you travelled around the country, everywhere was different and then if you went abroad it was really exciting and very different.

Nowadays you have difficulty telling any UK town from the next one and the only difference when you leave the UK into Europe is the language on the MacDonald's menu is a different one.

The EU harmonisation is destroying the difference and I am more guilty than most in being part of that, having exploited EU membership and freedom of movement. As I have said all along, I am pro-EU and my family (past, present and future) is not able to be confined to UK borders.

Yet it is not so clear cut as EU is totally good and any objectors are bad.
Nor do I think it is evil to try and retain some local flavour and not disappear into a grey mess.
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Re: Vote UKIP...

Postby beardy » Sat May 24, 2014 5:13 pm

It is not socially acceptable to be openly racist hence there is UKIP.


There were still tick boxes on my ballot paper for BNP and Britain First (a splinter group who had to leave BNP for being too middle ground!).

Yet swathes who voted for them (and Lib Dem, Labour and Conservative) last time have moved to UKIP.

It could be that they have decided to run with the ones who stand a chance or it could be that they are being offered a chance to vote for immigration control without the racism.

Though really it is probably because they are fed up with lying politicians breaking promises (Farage hasnt had his chance to do it yet) and want to try and exercise some power over them, voting UKIP is the way that the media presented to them, to achieve this.
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