BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by thirdcrank »

My concern is that warning signs to other road users may be seen by the driver of the vehicle as a form of disclaimer, reducing their own duty of care to other road users. The fact that these signs are inevitably generally provided by an employer suggests to me that under the pretence of improving road safety, they are promoting carelessness or even arrogance among their workforce. This is by no means restricted to "Cyclists stay back" signs: get-out-of-my-way-or-I'll-run-you-over reversing alarms are an example of what I mean.
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honesty
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by honesty »

feeder lanes to ASLs are always on the left (apart from the few in the middle!). The cycling infrastructure approves filtering on the left of vehicles. A blanket statement to not pass on the left is therefore wrong, as the government, through its infrastructure, encourage it.

In my view 2 things need to be taken away from the whole situation:
1. when cycling don't be a moron. If a vehicle is indicating to turn left don't undertake.
2. When driving don't be a moron. Signal your turns properly and look properly before turning.

Neither is highlighted by this stupid sticker which is a cop-out attempt to shift the blame to cyclists and away from morons.
mrjemm
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by mrjemm »

honesty wrote:feeder lanes to ASLs are always on the left (apart from the few in the middle!). The cycling infrastructure approves filtering on the left of vehicles. A blanket statement to not pass on the left is therefore wrong, as the government, through its infrastructure, encourage it.

In my view 2 things need to be taken away from the whole situation:
1. when cycling don't be a moron. If a vehicle is indicating to turn left don't undertake.
2. When driving don't be a moron. Signal your turns properly and look properly before turning.

Neither is highlighted by this stupid sticker which is a cop-out attempt to shift the blame to cyclists and away from morons.


3. Don't forget that 1 & 2 depend on others following 1 & 2. i.e. Don't be a moron by forgetting that there are still morons.
4. Don't be a moron when voting. Don't vote for morons who build moronic infrastructure.

At the mo though, BT Openreach are under a lot of (deserved) flack, and are probably on the defensive and wanting everyone to stay back.
kwackers
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by kwackers »

reohn2 wrote:I've seen a few HGV's and buses lately with a sticker on the nearside rear corner that say 'cyclists don't go down my nearside' or something similar,which I agree with as some complete idiots fail to recognise the danger of doing just that.
I haven't yet seen the 'cyclists stay back' sticker though.

The "Cyclists Stay Back" seems to be the domain of 'white van man'. Seen a few.
Buses and other 'proper' vehicles seem to have more meaningful messages - the one I saw this morning said "cyclists take care overtaking this vehicle". Can't really complain about that.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by [XAP]Bob »

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I've seen a few HGV's and buses lately with a sticker on the nearside rear corner that say 'cyclists don't go down my nearside' or something similar,which I agree with as some complete idiots fail to recognise the danger of doing just that.
I haven't yet seen the 'cyclists stay back' sticker though.

The "Cyclists Stay Back" seems to be the domain of 'white van man'. Seen a few.
Buses and other 'proper' vehicles seem to have more meaningful messages - the one I saw this morning said "cyclists take care overtaking this vehicle". Can't really complain about that.

Although it does imply that motorvehicles needn't take care...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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kwackers
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by kwackers »

[XAP]Bob wrote:Although it does imply that motorvehicles needn't take care...

I'm not sure that follows, for all I know there's a sticker on their steering wheel saying "look out for cyclists" (wouldn't do much good on the back of the bus).

I don't particularly object to such stickers - I see lots of cyclists doing stupid things regarding overtaking these things all the time so some sort of warning isn't beyond the pale.
OTOH I do object to sticking them on white vans - particularly the more curt "Cyclists Stay Back" type stickers because I do believe them to be a more aggressive and of the "Stay Out of My Way" variety rather than a shared safety message.
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Graham
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by Graham »

thirdcrank wrote:My concern is that warning signs to other road users may be seen by the driver of the vehicle as a form of disclaimer, reducing their own duty of care to other road users. The fact that these signs are inevitably generally provided by an employer suggests to me that under the pretence of improving road safety, they are promoting carelessness or even arrogance among their workforce. This is by no means restricted to "Cyclists stay back" signs: get-out-of-my-way-or-I'll-run-you-over reversing alarms are an example of what I mean.

Another example of unintended consequences, creating another contributory negligence situation. ( Or perhaps not so unintended ? )

At this time, with all the technology available, it is simply unacceptable that motor vehicles should have "blind spots".
It is equivalent to accepting that people can be killed or injured by being in the "blind spot" and the driver effectively has no responsibility.

If you have cycled in London, with all its marked on-road cycle paths and the volume of cycling traffic it is simply unrealistic to think that stickers on the back of motor vehicle will stop cyclists from passing slow-moving or stationary traffic on the left.
Psamathe
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by Psamathe »

For me it is the tone for the sticker (i.e. the inference of the language). Maybe a sticker saying "Warning: Vehicle likely to make turns without looking or signalling". The meaning would in many ways be the same, except the emphasis/blame is put on the van driver.

Ian
Postboxer
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by Postboxer »

"cyclists take care overtaking this vehicle"

Doesn't this imply that they needn't take care whenever they're not overtaking that particular vehicle?

Let's just all get wheel sized stickers or middle of frame stickers might be better with cyclists messages on?

"Thanks for paying road tax for me!"

"I wouldn't have to be in the middle of the road if you knew how to drive!" Maybe needs work to make it snappier!
kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by kwackers »

Postboxer wrote:"cyclists take care overtaking this vehicle"

Doesn't this imply that they needn't take care whenever they're not overtaking that particular vehicle?
<snip>

It certainly seems that having a bicycle between your legs and the associated risk that goes with that isn't an aid to some folks survival instincts.

I've seen a cyclist make a last second break for a left turn down the side of a lorry *after* the lights have changed to green! A quick trawl through some of the 'crap cyclist' videos on YouTube quickly demonstrates to me that there's nothing wrong with a memory prompt for some folk.

We can of course reduce the whole thing to absurdity by suggesting that cyclists actually don't need anything - surely it's the duty of all the other vehicles around them to keep out of their way?
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by Psamathe »

Saw a virtually identical sticker on the back of a Travis Perkins (builders merchants) lorry in Norwich (yesterday).

So I did wonder with a National chain, if this is a national thing on all their vehicles nationwide.

Ian
MikeF
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Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by MikeF »

So do cyclists need a sticker saying "Motor Vehicles Keep Well Clear" or one saying "If you can read this you are too close" ?? :wink:

Then perhaps BT Openreach need "How's my driving?" stickers as well?? :lol:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
AlaninWales
Posts: 1626
Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by AlaninWales »

There used to be one on London buses:

If you care about
your health, your environment and
your city in gridlock.
Why are you driving?

I've always thought it would look good on a t-shirt... :lol:
Roger Geffen
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Joined: 7 Dec 2012, 3:22pm

Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by Roger Geffen »

CTC has linked up with the London Cycling Campaign, Road Danger Reduction Forum and others to object to these stickers.
See https://www.ctc.org.uk/news/cycling-and ... -and-buses.

Roger Geffen
Campaigns & Policy Director
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: BT Openreach cyclists stay back

Post by Psamathe »

Roger Geffen wrote:CTC has linked up with the London Cycling Campaign, Road Danger Reduction Forum and others to object to these stickers.
See https://www.ctc.org.uk/news/cycling-and ... -and-buses.

Roger Geffen
Campaigns & Policy Director

Excellent. Campaign has my full support.

Suggest: e-mail campaign to companies using the stickers (i.e. "disrespecting cyclists is not good business so I will not be using your services in future" (or phrased much better)

Suggest: online website "hall of shame" (photos and list of companies displaying such sitckers.

Ian
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