Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
pete75
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by pete75 »

Jughead wrote:Maybe it's the West of Scotland but absolutely everyone thinks you cycle because you are banned or can't afford a car. Is it that hard to believe that you like cycling? Why is cycling deemed so inferior? Maybe explain the poor attitude towards cyclists by car users.


Define poor - if Bill Gates is rich then I'm poor. If someone on a school teacher's salary is poor then I'm rich.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
TonyR
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by TonyR »

pete75 wrote:Define poor - if Bill Gates is rich then I'm poor. If someone on a school teacher's salary is poor then I'm rich.


Everyone in the UK is within the top 5% of incomes globally.
nez
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by nez »

TonyR wrote:
pete75 wrote:Define poor - if Bill Gates is rich then I'm poor. If someone on a school teacher's salary is poor then I'm rich.


Everyone in the UK is within the top 5% of incomes globally.


This is only useful if prices and conditions are the same globally. I would rather be poor somewhere warm and cheap than say, Aberdeen in winter.
Last edited by nez on 15 May 2014, 2:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
pete75
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by pete75 »

TonyR wrote:
pete75 wrote:Define poor - if Bill Gates is rich then I'm poor. If someone on a school teacher's salary is poor then I'm rich.


Everyone in the UK is within the top 5% of incomes globally.


There are people in the UK with no income whatsoever so that statement is demonstrably false.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pete75 wrote:
TonyR wrote:
pete75 wrote:Define poor - if Bill Gates is rich then I'm poor. If someone on a school teacher's salary is poor then I'm rich.


Everyone in the UK is within the top 5% of incomes globally.


There are people in the UK with no income whatsoever so that statement is demonstrably false.

I could say that for 354 days a year I have no income (I do, I just only receive it on 12 days of the year).
The UK is set up to ensure that noone here has *no* income (including 'income' from their assets) - Even people living on the streets of the UK get more than that from soup kitchens and other people*.

Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. (Jan 2013) £1.50
At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day. (Jan 2013) £6

According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ you are looking at about £13k to be in the top 5% of the world by income.

* I tend not to give cash, but a few weeks ago had most of a loaf of bread, some cold meat and salad left after a quick picnic with the kids. The guy we gave them to was very grateful - but that's instantly put his income for the day above 50% of the world...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
pete75
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by pete75 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
pete75 wrote:
TonyR wrote:Define poor - if Bill Gates is rich then I'm poor. If someone on a school teacher's salary is poor then I'm rich.

Everyone in the UK is within the top 5% of incomes globally.


There are people in the UK with no income whatsoever so that statement is demonstrably false.

I could say that for 354 days a year I have no income (I do, I just only receive it on 12 days of the year).
The UK is set up to ensure that noone here has *no* income (including 'income' from their assets) - Even people living on the streets of the UK get more than that from soup kitchens and other people*.

Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. (Jan 2013) £1.50
At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day. (Jan 2013) £6

According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ you are looking at about £13k to be in the top 5% of the world by income.

* I tend not to give cash, but a few weeks ago had most of a loaf of bread, some cold meat and salad left after a quick picnic with the kids. The guy we gave them to was very grateful - but that's instantly put his income for the day above 50% of the world...


According to the Equlity Trust http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/about-i ... quality-uk the poorest 10% in the UK have an income of £10,253 or less. If what you say about needing £13000 a year to be in the top 5% is correct then a considerable number of people in the UK are not in the top 5% of world incomes. Also if you're comparing incomes and poverty in different countries you need to take into account the purchasing power of money in each place.

I'd regard someone who relies on food handouts and charity to exist as not having an income in any real sense of the word.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pete75 wrote:According to the Equlity Trust http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/about-i ... quality-uk the poorest 10% in the UK have an income of £10,253 or less. If what you say about needing £13000 a year to be in the top 5% is correct then a considerable number of people in the UK are not in the top 5% of world incomes. Also if you're comparing incomes and poverty in different countries you need to take into account the purchasing power of money in each place.

I'd regard someone who relies on food handouts and charity to exist as not having an income in any real sense of the word.


the 13k was spending power adjusted.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
pete75
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by pete75 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
pete75 wrote:According to the Equlity Trust http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/about-i ... quality-uk the poorest 10% in the UK have an income of £10,253 or less. If what you say about needing £13000 a year to be in the top 5% is correct then a considerable number of people in the UK are not in the top 5% of world incomes. Also if you're comparing incomes and poverty in different countries you need to take into account the purchasing power of money in each place.

I'd regard someone who relies on food handouts and charity to exist as not having an income in any real sense of the word.


the 13k was spending power adjusted.


I've looked on the website you linked to and can't find any mention of the figures being spending power adjusted.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Bicycler
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by Bicycler »

For currency conversion we use Purchasing Power Parity Dollars (PPP$) in order to take into account the difference in cost of living between countries; PPP$ are also less susceptible to short term fluctuations.
pete75
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by pete75 »

Bicycler wrote:
For currency conversion we use Purchasing Power Parity Dollars (PPP$) in order to take into account the difference in cost of living between countries; PPP$ are also less susceptible to short term fluctuations.



Are you sure they do that - for example putting in an income of £12000 a year ie £1000 a month it says "your monthly income could pay the monthly salaries of 75 doctors in Pakistan". This means they are paid the equivalent of £13.33 a month. It's not likely that a doctor in Pakistan has a wage with the equivalent purchasing power of about 3 quid a week here. It seems a bit dubious.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Vorpal
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by Vorpal »

This article was prompted by someone asking Carlton Reid if he has a driving licence....
http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/why- ... tead_63557
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
reohn2
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by reohn2 »

Vorpal wrote:This article was prompted by someone asking Carlton Reid if he has a driving licence....
http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/why- ... tead_63557


A different acusation but the same train of thought.
We were on the tandem at a TL some years back before I retired, and had a chap on a motorbike at the side of us said,quite out of the blue,''you need to pay some f***ing road tax'' He had a bit of a shock when I told him we both paid road tax on each of our cars and on my Transit van too.
It's obvious it hasn't crossed such people's minds that anyone on a bike rides it because they want to and actually like it,we simply must be poor and can't afford anything ''better'' :? :roll: .
Myopic small minded idiots with egos to match IMHO.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Bicycler
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by Bicycler »

pete75 wrote: It seems a bit dubious.

Sorry, I hadn't seen that. Yes it is dubious.

Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with arguing that most cyclists have driving licenses and cars and pay 'road tax'? So most cyclists are legitimate road users by virtue of also being motorists? What about those who are not? It is so depressing to hear cycle campaigners trotting out these lines without challenging the need for a cyclist to have a car or driver's license or the existence of 'road tax'.
Vorpal
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by Vorpal »

You have a point. And perhaps we should challenge the attitude that we are somehow invalidated by the lack of paying road tax or holding a driving licence, rather than trying to show that we do. It only encourages those who place value on such things to continue doing so.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
reohn2
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Re: Cycle - You must be banned or poor

Post by reohn2 »

My point above was that I challenge the motorists or in that particular instance a motorcyclist, thought pattern on their own ground so to speak.
Their whole thought pattern is flawed but unfortunately it's part of the sickening class system that operates in a minority of motorists minds and generally I only have less than a minute to drive(sorry) the point home.
Yesterday opproaching a left turn off a narrow section of A road with double white lines down the centre with a JCB digger coming the other way,I was signalling clearly left when woman in a small hatch decided it was the ideal time to overtake causing the JCB driver to take evasive action,yet the small red van following her shouted to me as I turned,through his open passenger window ''get off the f***ing road'' clearly as much an idiot as said woman in HB,she would've needed to wait perhaps all of 2to3 seconds :?
It's that kind of class system stupid thinking that's the problem,which is bad enough in itself but when no one in authority is challenging it,and this ever growing minority of goons become more emboldened due to a lack of policing or worse still bad policing that doesn't uphold the law,this thought pattern is rarely challenged.
One final point is that if I get into conversation with anyone with that kind of class system/freeloading cyclists/no insurance/no road tax attitude.I give them the full arguement,it tends to be a rare occurrence,but when I do they either back off PDQ after a few minutes as they know their arguement is flawed,or they stick their metaphorical fingers in their ears like some creationist believer faced with the facts of evolution.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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