Driver Awareness

[Postboxer]

http://youtu.be/UEIn8GJIg0E

This is Meskel Square, Addis Abeda, at a very busy junction, but there doesn't appear to be any traffic lights, yet there also doesn't appear to be any tailbacks. Is this safer? Are these drivers much more alert and careful than drivers in the UK? Would this be safe for cyclists? I can't see any in the video, although there are a few motorbikes, there is a motorbike that comes from the right at 0:21 that uses a truck for shelter but gives it a wide berth.

The other advantage is that the junction is HUGE!

[Postboxer]

There's a cyclist at the bottom at 1:34, so they do exist, he doesn't really cross the junction though.

[[XAP]Bob]

Somewhat civilised behaviour by all road users mean that artificially imposed civility (traffic lights) aren't needed. You'll note that the motorists stop for each other, and for the pedestrians...

[Si]

however, the traffic capacity on those roads is large. I wonder what they behave like when they are on more British like roads and thus are in long queues just to get to the junction? Are they still willing to let the world and his donkey go first? Or does the infuriation of queueing build up and up?

For instance, in India, where you have the same lack of traffic management I noticed that everyone goes for every gap and it's only the sheer density of traffic reducing speeds dramatically that prevents much worse outcomes.

[mrjemm]

however, the traffic capacity on those roads is large. I wonder what they behave like when they are on more British like roads and thus are in long queues just to get to the junction? Are they still willing to let the world and his donkey go first? Or does the infuriation of queueing build up and up?

For instance, in India, where you have the same lack of traffic management I noticed that everyone goes for every gap and it's only the sheer density of traffic reducing speeds dramatically that prevents much worse outcomes.

Sounds almost like you're arguing a case for making the roads here even larger Si!

But then it simply wouldn't happen like that here, I am sure- the speeds and traffic volume would simply increase to fill that space. How often has the M25 been widened? And now I read that they're going to open up the hard shoulder on it somewhere. I bet it's no smoother running.

In N America, at least in the SE, the roads are far wider generally, and the drivers there just seem to go where they please, passing on both sides (at the same time even, eeek), and getting very close to cyclists despite the empty lanes beyond them...

[Si]

Sounds almost like you're arguing a case for making the roads here even larger Si!

Nope, just wondering if the lack of holdups there leads to calmer driving?

I've little doubt that the traffic there will also increase to fill the available road space (just like in parts of India, China, etc) if things continue as they are.

[mrjemm]

I will say that in the past I've noticed in countries such as India, China, Vietnam, Egypt (to some extent) and others where at the time, car traffic was less dense than here, and roads have been more randomly used. The vehicles have moved around each other more willingly and shown less aggression, but get into areas of lower traffic volume and the drivers have become utterly insane, hurtling along narrow roads, barely, if at all slowing for bends, blind or not. Even in India, when on a normal single carriageway road, riding a mobike, facing a truck, when a bus passes it, and a car passes that, leaving me only able to go straight onto the 'verge'. I dare say the traffic volumes in all these places has increased dramatically since I was in them, and with 'improved' infrastructure, speeds will have increased. I wonder if driver awareness and ability has increased at an equivalent pace.

[patpalloon]

I've often noticed in a town nearby which has terrible congestion, when the lights are out the traffic flow is much better! Not sure how this affects cyclists though. Many of the countries mentioned have quite high accident rates.

[RickH]

Lack of formal traffic control on a junction of major roads with high traffic density seems to be working for Poynton (Youtube video for those not familiar)

Rick.

[irc]

I will say that in the past I've noticed in countries such as India, China, Vietnam, Egypt (to some extent) and others where at the time, car traffic was less dense than here, and roads have been more randomly used....................... I dare say the traffic volumes in all these places has increased dramatically since I was in them, and with 'improved' infrastructure, speeds will have increased. I wonder if driver awareness and ability has increased at an equivalent pace.

Road traffic fatalities per 100'000 motor vehicles.

UK 5.1

India 100

China 36

Vietnam 55.9

Egypt 188.4



I'll stick with traffic lights and other UK traffic management, roads engineering, etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

[mrjemm]

Non sequitur award goes to...

I will say that in the past I've noticed in countries such as India, China, Vietnam, Egypt (to some extent) and others where at the time, car traffic was less dense than here, and roads have been more randomly used....................... I dare say the traffic volumes in all these places has increased dramatically since I was in them, and with 'improved' infrastructure, speeds will have increased. I wonder if driver awareness and ability has increased at an equivalent pace.

Road traffic fatalities per 100'000 motor vehicles.

UK 5.1

India 100

China 36

Vietnam 55.9

Egypt 188.4



I'll stick with traffic lights and other UK traffic management, roads engineering, etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

Me too, ta.

[[XAP]Bob]

That strikes me as a rather odd statistic.
Cars in garages are safe...



http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/U ... lities.pdf
Annual deaths: 640/661/650 (2010/1/2)
http://who.int/violence_injury_preventi ... rlands.pdf
Cars: 8 494 708 (2013)

So that's a measure of 7.5 for the NL - not really compatible with the known safety focus they have. Maybe "per mile travelled" would be more appropriate