2 Abreast

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
SleepyJoe
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Joined: 30 Sep 2010, 12:16pm
Location: North Devon

Re: 2 Abreast

Post by SleepyJoe »

A bit slower, but...
The main advantage of a tandem with riders in line is aerodynamics.
It is the same reason why racers ride in pace lines or a peloton - it is easier/quicker.
The side by side tandem was promoted as a 'socialable' so that you could chat with your partner easier.

Going back on thread slightly- riding in the gutter is a bad idea and when I do drift over towards the gutter I get more close passes.
I usually aim to ride 3-4 ft from the kerb but use the whole lane if it is too narrow to pass me with at least a 3ft gap between my shoulder and the overtaking car.

Mark
reohn2
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by reohn2 »

Ayesha wrote:What seems strange is there have been designs for side-by-side tandems, but the design that is most popular is where one rider is behind the other.

If it is REALLY more safe to ride two-a-breast, side-by-side tandems would sell like hot cakes.

Now go and waste half an hour scribbling a response to that :lol:

A tandem by definition means riders are inline ie;one behind the other
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tande ... 2&ie=UTF-8

PS, about 30seconds :?
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ian s
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by ian s »

DevonDamo's opinions would seem to be those of a motorist contributing to this forum, not a cyclist; the suggestions are, frankly, so barking mad as to not be worth commenting about further. I am contemplating a cycle size and weight "sidewinder" tilting side car so as to take up more road space. The biggest problem is how to attach it to the bike.
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Vantage
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by Vantage »

ian s wrote:I am contemplating a cycle size and weight "sidewinder" tilting side car so as to take up more road space.


Which could easily be seen as deliberately obstructing traffic.
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DevonDamo
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by DevonDamo »

ian s wrote:DevonDamo's opinions would seem to be those of a motorist contributing to this forum, not a cyclist; the suggestions are, frankly, so barking mad as to not be worth commenting about further. I am contemplating a cycle size and weight "sidewinder" tilting side car so as to take up more road space. The biggest problem is how to attach it to the bike.


I may be barking mad, but I can still recognize breath-taking irony when I see it. Good luck with your Sidewinder.

A few posts back, someone very courteously offered me all due respect and questioned how I was still alive. Good question. 44 years old. Been cycling since I was a kid and my bike has always been my main transport. Currently in Devon, but spent 7 years in South East London and thence onto various Northern towns. Always committed the cardinal sin of offering faster vehicles an easy time getting past me. Still alive, and only ever had one accident on the road - pothole (in the middle of the lane) buckled the front wheel on my old racer. I'm as baffled as you are, but here are two alternate suggestions as to why I'm not brown bread:

Either:

1. I'm extremely lucky.

Or:

2. My strategy works. It means I don't spend my time on the road pursued by a bottleneck of angry drivers looking for a gnat's chuff of a chance to get past/through me. In fact, I'd wager the average distance between me and vehicles overtaking me is significantly wider than it is for the 'them versus us' brigade. And just to be clear... my 'strategy' is to signal to the faster vehicles behind that I'm trying to let them past - hence riding two-abreast being a no-no. That's it. I've never said anything about riding in the gutter - you can ride well over to the left without doing that. Neither have I said I'd dogmatically keep to the left if there's a pressing reason to pull out. If there is a need for you to pull out, you can still make that all-important 'signal' that you'll try to facilitate the eventual overtake, e.g. by upping the pace a bit.

To the majority of you who are persevering in your quest to teach people to be patient by holding them up: good luck with that. I look forward to reading more of your exciting tales on here.
TonyR
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by TonyR »

DevonDamo wrote:I'm as baffled as you are, but here are two alternate suggestions as to why I'm not brown bread:

Either:

1. I'm extremely lucky.

Or:

2. My strategy works.


Its actually:

3. Contrary to common perception, cycling is extremely safe and accidents very very rare even if you do cycle in the gutter. Its just that they are rarer still if you don't.
Postboxer
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Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: 2 Abreast

Post by Postboxer »

I'm going with 3.

Together with possibly a higher tolerance of close passes.
Bicycler
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by Bicycler »

DevonDamo wrote:2. And just to be clear... my 'strategy' is to signal to the faster vehicles behind that I'm trying to let them past - hence riding two-abreast being a no-no. That's it. I've never said anything about riding in the gutter - you can ride well over to the left without doing that. Neither have I said I'd dogmatically keep to the left if there's a pressing reason to pull out. If there is a need for you to pull out, you can still make that all-important 'signal' that you'll try to facilitate the eventual overtake, e.g. by upping the pace a bit.

To make it more clear how do you decide your road position "well over to the left"? Is it a set distance from the kerb or do you move relative to the kerb depending on lane width or other factors? Also, what would constitute a need to move out? Just a physical obstacle or right turning manoeuver?
Ellieb
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by Ellieb »

To the majority of you who are persevering in your quest to teach people to be patient by holding them up: good luck with that. I look forward to reading more of your exciting tales on here.

Well if people on here misunderstand what you are saying then I think the failing is mutual. The point is that 2 abreast isn't always holding people up & is sometimes safer for cyclists and more convenient for drivers. But in addition, the attitude that cyclists are an obstruction who must get out if the way is an attitude which makes cycling frightening and off-putting in this country. Try cycling abroad where drivers treat cyclists as if they have every right to be where they are. It makes a huge difference to the experience of cycling.
kwackers
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by kwackers »

Motorists perceive themselves as held up by cyclists no matter what.

Last night I was in primary on a narrowish road having come around a blind(ish) left hander that has a left turn immediately after the bend, a set of bollards immediately after the left turn and then immediately after the bollards the right turn I wanted to make.

Three reasons to be in primary.

As I'm passing the left turn the car behind me decided now would be a good time to overtake - a bit ill advised and annoying but doable without causing me too much hassle. Unfortunately there happened to be an oncoming car who not too surprisingly objected quite loudly to his manoeuvre.

Who's fault was it? Judging by the amount of gesticulating and his angry rear view mirror face I'm fairly confident he thought it was mine.
I'd love to hear how his story morphed as he retold it later in order to remove any trace of blame from him and onto 'the bloody cyclists'. :roll:
Last edited by kwackers on 27 Apr 2014, 12:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by Cyril Haearn »

anything that reduces speed ("impedes the free flow of traffic") is welcome
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Mark1978
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by Mark1978 »

boliston wrote: surely you are allowed a non alcoholic drink if driving on a hot day?


Only if stopped with the engine off. Yes everyone ignores this but you can get done for it.
reohn2
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by reohn2 »

kwackers wrote:............I'd love to hear how his story morphed as he retold it later in order to remove any trace of blame from him and onto 'the bloody cyclists'. :roll:


And where the anticyclingDailyMailism gets into Top Gear(sorry couldn't resist) without even a thought as to why you were in a primary position at all.
It's the me first coz I'm bigger than you therefore better,class system at work.That'll be massaged and agreed with when that driver is down the pub later,claiming you were taking up all the road when,after all,it was only a bike :?
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TrevA
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by TrevA »

I very rarely if ever have any trouble with cars passing close when cycling alone. I tend to ride in what most people would call "secondary" i.e. the left side wheel track left by motor vehicles. Does that equate to "well over to the left"? The reasons for riding there (usually about a foot out from the kerb) is that cars can see you, you aren't picking up the detritus that lies in the gutter at the side of the road, the tarmac is usually smoother, and cars do actually have to deviate from their normal trajectory to make a pass.

I do ride 2 abreast on club rides, but this is mostly on deserted country lanes, that are wide enough for a car to pass. If the roads too narrow or we're aware that we're holding someone up, then we'll single out.
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LittleGreyCat
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Re: 2 Abreast

Post by LittleGreyCat »

I think a great deal depends on where and when you cycle.

Busy urban cycling, or rural cycling on crowded roads, or commuting in the rush hour can all get you involved with drivers who are stressed and in a rush.
For true comparisons of cycling style you need to compare two or more cyclists who travel the same route at the same time on the same day to ensure traffic conditions are comparable.

I have had a generally good interaction with drivers, but I live in Suffolk and the pace of life is generally more relaxed.

Most of my riding is on country lanes which can either just fit two cars or sometimes is 'single track with passing places'.

It could well be that people drive slowly and carefully because of the ever present risk of meeting an oncoming car, but in general they are very considerate and don't hassle me.
In return, I try to be considerate to them and hold them up as little as possible.
For instance today when climbing a single track hill I pulled over to a farm entrance (off side) to allow following vehicles to pass.
I assist cars to pass whenever I can because that is what I appreciate when I am driving my car.
Cars approaching from ahead on a single track lane also tend to slow down or stop, which is considerate.

So, where there is space for just two cars I try and position well over to the left (but not in the gutter) to give cars plenty of room to pass, because there is no way that they can pass if a car is coming the other way.
This seems to work well.

However in town one minor fly in the ointment is pedestrian refuges in the middle of the road.
Where the Council have provided white dotted line cycle lanes they very conspicuously stop before a refuge and start again soon after.
Which demonstrates very clearly that there isn't room for a cycle and a car in the gap by the refuge.
So when approaching a refuge, and the end of the 'cycle lane' I always try and move out into the centre of the gap to clearly demonstrate that there isn't enough room for me and a car.
This generally works very well and is one of the situations where cycling close to the left kerb is not a good idea.

I did have one incident a couple of years ago when approaching a refuge, when a stream of cars started racing past to try and get to the refuge before I did.
I moved steadily out and the stream of cars took some very strange lines before it became obvious that very shortly there wasn't going to be a gap.
Some dozy <female person> tried to go anyway then had to slam on the brakes at the last minute.
Stalled.
Managed to restart after a while.
Drove past with lots of revving and horn hooting.
Thankfully such incidents are very rare.

So, in summary, I try to ride well over to the left as long as there is plenty of room for following and oncoming cars to pass each other and only move out towards the centre of the lane when approaching a hazard.
I always try to move out early to establish my position, and move in as swiftly as possible after the hazard.
I try and wave thanks when someone waits behind me for a safe passing place.

Cheers

LGC
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