'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

What is a "CTC type" cyclist? I doubt they were cycling aimlessly if they were in a group.

What about all the single motorists driving three abreast?
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Cunobelin
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by Cunobelin »

[XAP]Bob wrote:What is a "CTC type" cyclist?


Cyclist on antique touring bike with a Carradice saddle bag, Brooks saddle, sandals and a beard

.. and that is just the women!
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Si
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by Si »

Cunobelin wrote:
Which really rather raises the question as to why this image should cause concern?

With considerate drivers driving responsibly with due respect for other road users... there should be no problem with this.



The issue is that even if every motorist is ultra careful, children of this age may well not be able to control their bikes well enough to ride on a busy multi-lane road, thus all the careful motorists will slow to the child's speed, and wait very patiently until they can pass giving lots of room in case of sudden random movements from the child....and within a very short time the whole centre of town will be grid locked. Whereas if the child were on a cycle path, any random movement is very unlikely cause great amounts of risk or delay for other path users. Or are grid locked streets not a problem as long as _we_ can cut through them on our bikes....but remember we need to slow down too because while filtering down that line of stationary traffic the child might suddenly appear from a gap in front of us.

Obviously, the answer is to remove all the cars and leave the roads free for cyclists....and if you'd like to explain how we do that over night then I'm sure we'd all be very interested :D
We could remove the cars more slowly...but how do we do that? Ah, well one thing we can try (as part of a larger solution) is to put some cycle paths in so that people aren't scared to ride their bikes.
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mjr
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by mjr »

Is this satire?
leftpoole wrote:The CTC group which is a fairly local group behave as though they own the road. Riding 4 abreast or even 2 when a queue of vehicles is following is not good and in fact lawless [...] I guess as a former ADI that I know a little more than most regarding road law.

How is that lawless? You do realise the 1 and 2 abreast bits are only a "should" in the highway code, like the advice to use off road tracks you feel riders shouldn't follow?
leftpoole wrote:But that is not the point. The point I was/am trying to make is that we should behave on the road and perhaps in time (a long time?) we would be treated better by those motoring who do not do so at the present time?

I feel we'll never be treated better until there is space4cycling and road justice, as in those two fine CTC campaigns. It's not really the few unruly riders that are making our roads unpleasant places to be.
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by leftpoole »

Due to what I feel wrongful interpretation of my opening post, I should like to withdraw from any further contribution and have no comment regarding any of the issues raised.
Regards,
John
Last edited by leftpoole on 20 Apr 2014, 6:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mjr
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by mjr »

leftpoole wrote:Due to what I feel wrongful interpretation of my opening post, I should like to withdraw from any further contribution and have no comment regarding any of the issues raised.

Only wrongful, not lawless? ;-)

Oh well, it's a shame all the same. I'm still not sure if you were joking, or if serious, if you really think the nice way code would work.
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1942alexander
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by 1942alexander »

When three cyclists are riding in the normal formation of two, side by side, up front and the rearmost rider tucked in between, are they riding two abreast, or three?
Wilf Roberts
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by Wilf Roberts »

leftpoole wrote:A person riding a bike on a pavement not only breaks the law but is idiotic, usually rude and does not care about anyone but him/herself.


Whilst I'm sure we've all got exasperated at people cycling on pavements at times, the above hardly makes sense when so many "cycle paths" are just pavements with lines and pictures of bikes on them. As an adult male I cycle mainly on the road, quite often ignoring the (sometimes very poorly planned) cycle paths in my area. When the cycle paths are good I use them. The reality is there is no single answer to improving cycling provision - although if I could wave a magic wand I would love to improve the awareness and habits of drivers to encourage more cycling on the roads we already have. There is a reason one sees so many adults cycling on pavements next to perfectly rideable streets, and it's not because they're "idiotic" or "rude", it's because they don't feel it's safe to ride on the road.
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by boliston »

agreed - there is nothing "idiotic" about simply wanting to remain alive - I normally cycle about 3 miles to work each day and use marked cycle paths most of the way, but there are still busy bits of road with no cycle path and speeding traffic and i'd rather stay alive even if it's not 100% legal to use the pavement, and I always give way if I meet a pedestrain.
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by Bicycler »

Wilf Roberts wrote:Whilst I'm sure we've all got exasperated at people cycling on pavements at times, the above hardly makes sense when so many "cycle paths" are just pavements with lines and pictures of bikes on them. As an adult male I cycle mainly on the road, quite often ignoring the (sometimes very poorly planned) cycle paths in my area. When the cycle paths are good I use them. The reality is there is no single answer to improving cycling provision - although if I could wave a magic wand I would love to improve the awareness and habits of drivers to encourage more cycling on the roads we already have. There is a reason one sees so many adults cycling on pavements next to perfectly rideable streets, and it's not because they're "idiotic" or "rude", it's because they don't feel it's safe to ride on the road.

Agreed. Though the difference between what people feel is likely to be safe and what is safe are often very different. It is not unusual to see people putting themselves in greater danger by riding on pavements or in the gutter than on the road. I fear that people massively overestimate the risks of cycling. If you could have a second wave of that magic wand it might be used to provide such cyclists with an appreciation of the actual risks.

I think you are right to say that there's no one single solution to providing for cyclists. We need fewer entrenched, almost religious, beliefs from both sides of the debate that their solution is the only solution. We are unlikely to reach a point where all roads are safe to cycle on, we are similarly unlikely to have a cycle path past every front door.
Wilf Roberts
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by Wilf Roberts »

Bicycler wrote:Agreed. Though the difference between what people feel is likely to be safe and what is safe are often very different. It is not unusual to see people putting themselves in greater danger by riding on pavements or in the gutter than on the road. I fear that people massively overestimate the risks of cycling. If you could have a second wave of that magic wand it might be used to provide such cyclists with an appreciation of the actual risks.


Absolutely. The perception of danger is such a huge problem in getting people cycling. So often I have conversations with people who could be making more journeys by bike but are reluctant because they don't feel safe. It also explains why I see so many non-yobbish, non-idiotic people cycling on pavements. Cycle paths that are just painted pavements, that then stop abruptly, leave anyone "brave" enough to venture out on their bike with a choice - to "risk" continuing on that "car path" next to them, or to carry on cycling the pavement that looks just like the cycle path, but without the painted bits.

I also think people end up cycling on pavements sometimes because they are exactly the opposite of the caricature in the OP - rather than being idiotic and selfish they are trying to avoid antagonising drivers because they feel like they are just going to be an obstacle on the road (rather like the other complaint levelled by the OP). The same people we hear shouting about the life threatening threat of cycling on the pavement will also be the ones that rail against "selfish" cyclists slowing down their car journeys when they encounter cyclists on the road, be they three, two or even one abreast. I have to say I was a bit surprised to see these arguments put forward on the CTC forum however!
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by TonyR »

boliston wrote:agreed - there is nothing "idiotic" about simply wanting to remain alive - I normally cycle about 3 miles to work each day and use marked cycle paths most of the way, but there are still busy bits of road with no cycle path and speeding traffic and i'd rather stay alive even if it's not 100% legal to use the pavement, and I always give way if I meet a pedestrain.


Except its safer to ride on the road than the pavement if its the risk of being killed or injured you are worried about. Its one of those many counter-intuitive facts about cycling that many people misunderstand. The reason is that the real risk is at junctions and pavements have many many more non-priority "junctions" to cross in the form of driveways, entrances and side roads than the road
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by mjr »

And here's someone else who doesn't know people are OK to ride two abreast http://road.cc/content/news/117179-kent ... -10-months
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by Vorpal »

mjr wrote:And here's someone else who doesn't know people are OK to ride two abreast http://road.cc/content/news/117179-kent ... -10-months

Discussed here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=85924
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Re: 'Real' Cyclists as opposed to people riding cycles?

Post by reohn2 »

One of my pet hates is snobbishness,our society is riddled with it,and non more than those who categorise cyclists into 'real' cyclists and not proper cyclists or only 'people riding bikes' or POBs,etc.
There are many types of cyclists and anyone riding a uni/bi/tri or quad cycle are cyclists,when they get off it and walk they become pedestrians,likwise anyone driving a car are motorists until they get out of it,get on a bike then they become cyclists.

There are idiots about in any walk or ride of life,unfortunately there's not enough police enforcing the law to make people think twice about their actions or responsibility toward the rest of society.

Regarding the OP's opinion that anyone riding on a pavement is an idiot,if he hadn't taken his ball home I would like to have asked him to clarify his statement.IMO in certain circumstances riding on the pavement is an idiotic thing to do,OTOH in another situation it's the safest .
To clarify,city/town centre with lots of pedestrians walking about riding on the pavement is stupid antisocial and dangerous.Fast busy 60mph unused pavement, it can be the safest option.
There's a stretch of very fast very busy dual carriageway not far from where I live (google earth A580 from j23 m6 east toward Manchester),which has a perfectly well surfaced cyclepath completely seperate from the road,yet I still on occasion see cyclists exercising their right to ride the carriageway :?
As for riding two abreast in some circumstances it's ludicrous ie; two cyclist on a fast A road,but at other times it's the best and safest way to ride ie;six or eight riders are no worse to over take than a slow moving tractor/traction engine/horse and or cart,etc,but invite close and dangerous overtaking by motors if they file out.
The key thing is context,when and where to or not,unfortunately there are a lot of very selfish and ignorant people using our roads,some are pedestrians some are cyclists and some are motorists but that said the ones who are likely to cause the most injury and disruption are those driving motors of any kind.
There is also a very unhealthy class system operating in UK society which is a blight on our country and we are all the worse for it.
Just my 2d's worth.
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