Another death

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
fretsaw
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Joined: 4 Nov 2012, 9:49pm

Re: Another death

Post by fretsaw »

very tragic;but surely such a epic ride would present problems with overcoming fatigue,and the resulting loss of concentration
Bicycler
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Re: Another death

Post by Bicycler »

fretsaw wrote:very tragic;but surely such a epic ride would present problems with overcoming fatigue,and the resulting loss of concentration

Maybe. If it is possible to use that argument I'm sure it will be used. It could be a simple case of a drunk running down a cyclist and even the most alert of us can never be immune to that. Until we have any evidence of contributory negligence I think it would be appropriate not to speculate upon the subject.
TonyR
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Re: Another death

Post by TonyR »

reohn2 wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote: .. riding without sleep ... What about P-B-P, it takes place in 2015. Should it be banned or restricted? Open question!

It's something that troubles me about long distance Audax events.
But then again any driver of a vehicle not needing a tachograph to measure time driving,could be behind the wheel of such a vehicle at considerably higher speeds for as long as they saw fit,which is a worrying thought.
The difference of course is that a sleep deprived cyclist would more than likely only put their own life at risk.
Whereas someone driving a motor with the same level of sleep deprivation has the potential for far more devastation.


e.g. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/s ... y-cyclists
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sleep.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... years.html
reohn2
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Re: Another death

Post by reohn2 »

-----------------------------------------------------------
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Another death

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Vantage wrote:These words need to be drilled into the head of every [ person ] given a driving licence...

A short time later I had to wake up my 12, nine and five-year-old to tell them that their daddy was dead.
The sounds that they made can only be described as horrifying.


:evil:


bloody right, they should be repeated regularly on the radio instead of advertising and jingles and warnings of safety cameras.
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
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niggle
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Re: Another death

Post by niggle »

reohn2 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
661-Pete wrote: ... But I probably shouldn't be speculating - not on this thread at this time. ...


It all depends on the evidence gathered during the investigation, of course, but if this were to result in a contested trial, I'd expect that the defence would emphasise the length of time the deceased had been riding apparently without sleep, and the implication of poor mental health.

Before anybody jumps on me, I'm only predicting a couple of lines the defence might explore, without expressing an opinion on the merit of their doing so.

But could only be of any value if the defendant claimed the cyclist had wobbled/veered/swerved in front the car she was driving.But at twice the legal limit and 15+mph over the speed limit,with four month driving experience,how reliable would her account of events be? :?
Not very is my estimation .

Cyril Haearn wrote: .. riding without sleep ... What about P-B-P, it takes place in 2015. Should it be banned or restricted? Open question!

It's something that troubles me about long distance Audax events.
But then again any driver of a vehicle not needing a tachograph to measure time driving,could be behind the wheel of such a vehicle at considerably higher speeds for as long as they saw fit,which is a worrying thought.
The difference of course is that a sleep deprived cyclist would more than likely only put their own life at risk.
Whereas someone driving a motor with the same level of sleep deprivation has the potential for far more devastation.

I am reminded of this ironic story on YACF https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=54579.0 supposed to have been in the Daily Telegraph on 03.12.11:

"Tired driver in crash
A company director killed a motorist after going without sleep for 27 hours.
Nicholas Day, 30, was driving home to his family in St Albans, Herts after a cycle ride from Hyde Park, London to Whitstable, Kent, when his car hit another, driven by father of two, Andrew Viner, 47. Day pleaded guilty to death by careless driving on June 18 at St Albans Crown Court."


EDIT: newspaper report here: http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news/94 ... r/?ref=rss

"The judge sentenced Day to seven months imprisonment suspended for two years.

He was told he must carry out 200 hours of unpaid work and he was banned from driving for 18 months and his licence endorsed."
IMO this would belong in the 'Too Lenient' thread if he met the crieria of having killed a cyclist...
reohn2
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Re: Another death

Post by reohn2 »

niggle wrote:....IMO this would belong in the 'Too Lenient' thread if he met the crieria of having killed a cyclist...

It still should IMHO.
The sentence is disgraceful!
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661-Pete
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Re: Another death

Post by 661-Pete »

niggle wrote:I am reminded of this ironic story on YACF https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=54579.0 supposed to have been in the Daily Telegraph on 03.12.11:

"Tired driver in crash
A company director killed a motorist after going without sleep for 27 hours.
Nicholas Day, 30, was driving home to his family in St Albans, Herts after a cycle ride from Hyde Park, London to Whitstable, Kent, when his car hit another, driven by father of two, Andrew Viner, 47. Day pleaded guilty to death by careless driving on June 18 at St Albans Crown Court."


EDIT: newspaper report here: http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news/94 ... r/?ref=rss

"The judge sentenced Day to seven months imprisonment suspended for two years.

He was told he must carry out 200 hours of unpaid work and he was banned from driving for 18 months and his licence endorsed."
IMO this would belong in the 'Too Lenient' thread if he met the crieria of having killed a cyclist...

For those who don't know and haven't followed up the link, it seems that the person responsible for this fatal accident had either failed to heed advice, or had been poorly advised, after participating in one of a series of nocturnal Friday rides organised by a person who used to contribute to this forum, besides others. Indeed some of you may have participated in those rides - I myself did in a few of them in their first year (2006). I understand that that individual (the organiser, I mean) has finally stepped down from the job. Now, I don't want to finger any person for 'guilt by association', but IMO it's probably just as well. However, I hope the rides will continue under new management. They are an excellent thing, provided people are sensible about getting rest after the ride!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
reohn2
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Re: Another death

Post by reohn2 »

661-Pete wrote:For those who don't know and haven't followed up the link, it seems that the person responsible for this fatal accident had either failed to heed advice, or had been poorly advised, after participating in one of a series of nocturnal Friday rides organised by a person who used to contribute to this forum, besides others. Indeed some of you may have participated in those rides - I myself did in a few of them in their first year (2006). I understand that that individual (the organiser, I mean) has finally stepped down from the job. Now, I don't want to finger any person for 'guilt by association', but IMO it's probably just as well. However, I hope the rides will continue under new management. They are an excellent thing, provided people are sensible about getting rest after the ride!


I don't understand and am bemused by your post :? .
You think it's just as well that the organiser stepped down from the job,but hope the rides continue :?
Which seems to suggest a problem with the organiser(?) and not the event.
I don't see how this incident has anything to do with the event at all,surely anyone taking part in any event is responsible for there own state of fitness/health/tiredness,etc.
Surely there can be no 'guilt by association' attached to anyone other than the person directly responsible for the incident,the driver who didn't take enough rest before driving.
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661-Pete
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Re: Another death

Post by 661-Pete »

reohn2 wrote:I don't understand and am bemused by your post :? .
Are you?

Well perhaps I shouldn't have posted this, there's a backstory about a long-standing 'issue' I have with the person I referred to, which shouldn't have been aired (far from being a time of seasonal cheer and bonhomie for me, this is a season of severe angst because of a number of bits of personal stuff..... :( )

Sorry.

But I still think the Friday Night rides ought to be a going concern. Even if I've been unable to join in myself for some years. I just hope there'll never be a repetition of this very sad occurrence.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
reohn2
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Re: Another death

Post by reohn2 »

661-Pete wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I don't understand and am bemused by your post :? .
Are you?

Well perhaps I shouldn't have posted this, there's a backstory about a long-standing 'issue' I have with the person I referred to, which shouldn't have been aired (far from being a time of seasonal cheer and bonhomie for me, this is a season of severe angst because of a number of bits of personal stuff..... :( )

Sorry.

But I still think the Friday Night rides ought to be a going concern. Even if I've been unable to join in myself for some years. I just hope there'll never be a repetition of this very sad occurrence.

If I've cause any of that angst I'm sorry but it was genuine enquiry.
I can only agree that I too hope there's no further repetition
Last edited by reohn2 on 26 Dec 2014, 1:03am, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Vorpal
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Re: Another death

Post by Vorpal »

661-Pete wrote:For those who don't know and haven't followed up the link, it seems that the person responsible for this fatal accident had either failed to heed advice, or had been poorly advised, after participating in one of a series of nocturnal Friday rides organised by a person who used to contribute to this forum, besides others. Indeed some of you may have participated in those rides - I myself did in a few of them in their first year (2006). I understand that that individual (the organiser, I mean) has finally stepped down from the job. Now, I don't want to finger any person for 'guilt by association', but IMO it's probably just as well. However, I hope the rides will continue under new management. They are an excellent thing, provided people are sensible about getting rest after the ride!

The reason that the driver was tired has nothing whatsoever to do with the RTC. The driver should not have been driving. End of.

Please don't air dirty laundry, here.
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― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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