Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

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Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby Porkyboy » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:18 am

Hi

Thought this video message I sent to the driver of a lorry that came FAR too close to me at speed might be of interest to folks, not a nice experience and happens far too often :shock:

http://youtu.be/DdOdbXQAfC8

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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby Vorpal » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:45 am

Did you contact the company? If they are concerned about their reputation, they will take action. If you haven't, recommend that they require cyclist awareness courses for their drivers.

Not to blame you for what occurred, but I think I would ride a bit further out on a road like that. If you had been a little further out from the edge, there wouldn't have been room to squeeze a lorry between you and the oncoming. The driver would have had to wait behind you.
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby reohn2 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:14 am

After watching the video a couple of times IMO the OP wasn't 'in the gutter' but seems to be in a reasonable secondary position.
Though I've no doubt this was a close overtake,the wide angle on the camera doesn't tell the whole story and makes the lorry seem further out than in actually is.
So I agree it's close one and I don't think the OP was doing anything wrong.
As Vorpal says notify the company but also the police,plus I'd let the company know you've notified the police.
It's simply a matter of the driver not wanting to slow down a little,change a couple of gears to let traffic clear before overtaking.
The overtake also forces oncoming vehicles to take avoiding action by moving to their left to allow passage of the lorry which is something else worth noting to police and the driver's employers.

EDIT:- Not wanting to be negative about the video,because it's calm and well presented but the chances of the driver watching it are slim,but his bosses would have to if notified.
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby Vorpal » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:26 am

reohn2 wrote:After watching the video a couple of times IMO the OP wasn't 'in the gutter' but seems to be in a reasonable secondary position.
Though I've no doubt this was a close overtake,the wide angle on the camera doesn't tell the whole story and makes the lorry seem further out than in actually is.
So I agree it's close one and I don't think the OP was doing anything wrong.


At the point the OP was overtaken by the lorry I agree that he wasn't in the gutter. However, the road seems to be a little wider than many. I used to ride regularly on a couple of roads like that, I took a slightly stronger position just to prevent idiocy like in the video. I have to admit that there was a certain amount of trial and error involved.

Basically, if there is room for a vehicle to squeeze between me and an oncoming vehicle, I either need to move over enough to make that safe, or if there isn't enough room for that, move out far enough that drivers must overtake properly, when it's clear on the other side.
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:14 am

Hi,
I was out yesterday and was cut up just like the Vid twice by heavy lorries, they probably drive their cars the same, also a impatient car driver could'nt even wait for me to get to a wider place in road (lanes) down hill too as I was moving at speed, imeadiately past me they signaled left and pulled into a private drive, they would only have had to wait another 5 seconds or so to go in behind me :x

I think that the rider in the vid was perfectly positioned on that wide road, I normally count the distance to the kerb.
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby Vorpal » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:37 am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:I think that the rider in the vid was perfectly positioned on that wide road, I normally count the distance to the kerb.
There is a limit to how primery you can sensibly be on a wide A road.......................


The road appears to be an akward width. Rather wider than needed for two cars to pass each other, but not wide enough for a bike, lorry, and car to all share the width. Is there a limit to how primary one can be? I wasn't suggesting primary, actually; just a stronger position, but maybe primary would be safer. It's hard to tell without riding the road myself, where I would feel most comfortable.

It doesn't change the fact that what the lorry driver did was dangerous, and needlessly risked the life of the OP :evil:
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:59 am

Hi,
Vorpal wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:I think that the rider in the vid was perfectly positioned on that wide road, I normally count the distance to the kerb.
There is a limit to how primery you can sensibly be on a wide A road.......................

The road appears to be an akward width. Rather wider than needed for two cars to pass each other, but not wide enough for a bike, lorry, and car to all share the width. Is there a limit to how primary one can be? I wasn't suggesting primary, actually; just a stronger position, but maybe primary would be safer. It's hard to tell without riding the road myself, where I would feel most comfortable.
It doesn't change the fact that what the lorry driver did was dangerous, and needlessly risked the life of the OP :evil:

Could'nt agree more, like I said two incidents yesterday almost identical, and a felow cyclist on a 3 M cycle path who wants to cycle on the right :? :(
The path is shared with peds also but no specific signs to say where you should be etc.
And two other cyclist also cycling on right of road (albeit narrow lane) I cycle middle and Left not right even when there no other soul around.
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby Porkyboy » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:46 pm

Hi

Just to confirm that this incident has been reported to the police, it will be interesting to see what the outcome is. My view is that if nothing whatsoever is done the implication is that the police feel that this is an acceptable piece of driving. The officer I reported the incident to certainly took it seriously which was excellent and the points such as the oncoming vehicles having to avoid the lorry etc. were carefully noted.

It is also worth mentioning that as I you can see I was travelling at about 20mph. The speed limit for an HGV on a single carriageway A road is 40mph, the police will I hope check the tachograph data as he was travelling well above that, also noted by the officer. It "may" be possible to determine his speed from the video and/or tachograph data as the time of the incident is accurately known from my GPS.

On this road there is no way that any cyclist I have ever known riding solo would ride in the "primary" position.

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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby axel_knutt » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:04 pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: down hill too as I was moving at speed, imeadiately past me they signaled left and pulled into a private drive, they would only have had to wait another 5 seconds or so to go in behind me


That reminds me of one a few years ago. I was coming off the western escarpment of the Chilterns at a reasonable lick (>30mph) when I was overtaken by white van man who signalled to pull into a drive on the left and stamped on the brakes the moment he had passed. There wasn't time to do anything but pull out and overtake, but as I did that he swerved right across the road in front of me so as to align the van for reversing into the drive.
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby Porkyboy » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:12 pm

axel_knutt wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: down hill too as I was moving at speed, imeadiately past me they signaled left and pulled into a private drive, they would only have had to wait another 5 seconds or so to go in behind me


That reminds me of one a few years ago. I was coming off the western escarpment of the Chilterns at a reasonable lick (>30mph) when I was overtaken by white van man who signalled to pull into a drive on the left and stamped on the brakes the moment he had passed. There wasn't time to do anything but pull out and overtake, but as I did that he swerved right across the road in front of me so as to align the van for reversing into the drive.


All the more reason to consider running a camera?

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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby LollyKat » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:43 pm

axel_knutt wrote:That reminds me of one a few years ago. I was coming off the western escarpment of the Chilterns at a reasonable lick (>30mph) when I was overtaken by white van man who signalled to pull into a drive on the left and stamped on the brakes the moment he had passed. There wasn't time to do anything but pull out and overtake, but as I did that he swerved right across the road in front of me so as to align the van for reversing into the drive.

It sounds as if he was deliberately trying to kill you. :(
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby bigjim » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Oh I can do better than that. I also contacted the company. Not even an aknowledgement. Must findout who the directors are.
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby jezer » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:40 pm

If the complaint is by email it is too easy for the recipient to hit the delete button. Someone on here suggested a while ago to always send two messages, one to the appropriate line manager and one to the head honcho, indicating that each one has been copied in. Internal company politics will usually mean action rather than cover up. Of course finding out who the individuals are can be a challenge :shock:
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby MickH » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:04 pm

@Porkyboy, you probably already know this...

H. P. Thompson & Sons.
Address: Front Street, Pelton Fell, Chester-le-Street, County Durham DH2 2RT
Phone:0191 388 3919
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Re: Lorry and I - Far Too Close For Comfort

Postby horizon » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:08 pm

Vorpal wrote:At the point the OP was overtaken by the lorry I agree that he wasn't in the gutter. However, the road seems to be a little wider than many. I used to ride regularly on a couple of roads like that, I took a slightly stronger position just to prevent idiocy like in the video. I have to admit that there was a certain amount of trial and error involved.


I often hear people complain about the dangers of driving on roads that are too narrow and traffic too close. IME, these are the safer sort of road. The road illustrated by the OP in his video is the sort that I personally dislike: too wide to take an effective primary position, too narrow to really take a safe left hand position and too fast to have a reasonable influence over traffic. In particular, I would like to confront the road engineer in person who designated the left hand white line and ask them, to their face, do you really believe that that line will not appear to indicate to drivers the proper position of a cyclist on this road and thus influence their driving accordingly? And had there been a fatality, do we believe for one minute that the coroner would have looked at these factors?

I agree with Vorpal on this but at the same time I am wondering: who sits down and works out the best position for a bicycle in these circumstances? Who tests this out? Who has the authority to provide advice to cyclists? Who has taken the trouble to research the effect this type of road has on the safety of cyclists? And who now promotes this tried and tested position?

I did look just now but couldn't easily find further advice in Franklin. So it's left to us. I think that, despite the obviously appalling action of the driver, the road engineering and planning profession and road safety organisations should hang their heads in shame - they simply don't have an answer. But we on this forum can raise our hats to members who take the trouble to do what should be done by highly paid professionals - to work out what is the safest way to cycle on this road.
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