A Plea for BRIGHT Clothing

[Cunobelin]

... of course rain and drizzle is another issue with HiViz

Most waterproofs rely on "beading" where the rain beads and flows off. "Wetting out" is where he outer layer cannot do this.

Place a HiViz jacket on top of a decent set of waterproofs and you will prevent them working!

[horizon]

the fact that you are reliant on motorists seeing and not driving into you!

Welcome to the forum blueac.

Yes, you are reliant on drivers not driving into you. But that's not the whole story. If the driver cannot stop or control the car (e.g. the brakes have failed or he is drunk), then that is thankfully a rare occurrence and the car may well have driven into the verge long before it reaches you. It may happen, but we have to accept it most probably won't. If the driver does see you and can control the car and deliberately drives into you, that again is another matter and is very unlikely: it could and does happen but it isn't what we are discussing here.

That leaves us with the third eventuality: the driver is in control of the car, doesn't want to drive into you but did not see you in time. In this case there is quite a lot we can do, as has been discussed on many threads on this forum. A mirror is a vital part of that IMV, as you yourself have suggested.

In the case of blinding sunshine, sudden shade or sharp left and blind bends (e.g. high hedges), the driver won't see you no matter how brightly lit or hi-viz you are. In these circumstances (which you should learn to recognise in advance), you should make yourself known to the driver by moving out into the lane (using your mirror) and cycling in front of the car. You will need to judge this carefully but it is easier if you are already in the primary position. The driver is unlikely to overtake (he cannot see ahead) and you can hold him behind you by keeping as far to the right as necessary. This means that he can see you throughout the blind spot and, if the worst comes to the worst, you are protected by him from the following cars. You may even need to time your ride into the danger zone to make sure you have a car behind you.

I do this all the time - it isn't difficult. The worst is likely to be a hoot from the driver but a friendly wave following the manoeuvre should sweeten things up. If you don't want to do this, then I would suggest getting off and walking. Cycling is not meant to be Russian roulette - you need to be certain of your safety at all times and you have a right to ask that of fellow road users.

HTH.

[Tonyf33]

When I lived there (and when), it all depended when and where. So rain/drizzle and you were safe from rural (gendarmes) speed traps. Lunchtime and late afternoon safe. I used to get on well with the gendarmes (living in the middle of nowhere). They used to drop round late afternoon on sunny days, start chatting, start commenting on what a beautiful area, how nice it must be sitting outside with a beer (really beer not wine) .... They were a good laugh. Became a bit of a ritual.

But I agree about rules being broken. My experience was that France has loads of rules and everybody regards them as being there to be broken. I learnt to fly (gliders) when there but kept putting off doing the written exam for my full brevet. I'd done the solo, etc. but whenever pushed to the final exam I'd prevaricate ... In the end the club instructors decided that a degree of "flexibility" was appropriate and so created some informal new and different rules for me.

Ian

Used to be a regular visitor to France and at a tennis tournament we were invited to we were on the same table as French tennis federation president and other VIPs. Came to the cheese course and I declined another glass of red explaining I'd had one already & I had to drive back to the house we were renting, chap pouring (some local guy whom was the organiser I think) just said not to worry as most of the local plod were there supping anyway and they weren't that fussed about you having a few glasses so long as you didn't drive like an idiot.
I know everyone reacts differently to alcohol and my tolerence has always been pretty high but I always work out how much I can drink over an evening anyways.
I calculate that 2 large glasses over the course of a long evening isn't enough to push me anywhere near the UK limits (especially with food) but on foreign soil it's generally a fair bit lower...
Don't know how the local gendarmes are these days but always seemed pretty laid back to me.

[MikeF]

Just to add to the mix, I noticed last night that the moving silhouette of a person in BLACK clothing (or it might have been another dark colour) was far more noticeable under the new white streetlights (LED?) they've just installed here than someone nearby in "hi-vis" yellow. (Reflector patches still show up best, of course.)

But would you have seen the silhouette if there weren't street lights?
Hi-Vis and reflective strips are not the same as you note.

[blueac]

In these circumstances (which you should learn to recognise in advance), you should make yourself known to the driver by moving out into the lane (using your mirror) and cycling in front of the car. You will need to judge this carefully but it is easier if you are already in the primary position. The driver is unlikely to overtake (he cannot see ahead) and you can hold him behind
HTH.

Thanks for the advice. Even though I have been cycling for quite a few years, I am picking up tips from this forum, which helps to become more confident on the road. Maybe I am imagining it, but I have noticed motorists give me more room or staying behnd the more confidently I ride.

Interestingly, on the subject of bright clothing, you can find similar discussions in the motorbike world, where wearing high-viz and using DRLs is drummed into you when you do your training - and yet a lot of the clothing and helmets are dark in colour...

[Vorpal]

Actually, there are many circumstances where it can be useful to 'use' a motor vehicle to protect myself. I do so on hills, especially on winding descents, where I may not be visible to cars approaching from behind. The trick is to 'trap' one behind at a suitable time. I prefer a large vehicle, like a lorry. The drivers are less likely to follow too closely, and they are harder for other vehicles to overtake.

[broadway]

The only regular exception is on motorways where I've anticipated a lane change coming up within maybe 20 or 30 seconds and have been watching what traffic was coming up behind me and know for sure that once a certain vehicle passes there is nothing anywhere near.

I have spent a lot of my life as professional driver and I follow the same routine. I watch each car in to my blind spot and I watch it out. However on more than one occasion I have found somebody who has positioned themselves in my blind spot and stayed there, matching my speed and not overtaking and managed to trick me..

But that can't happen when I've just watched a car approach then overtake me as it has passed through the blind spot meaning nothing else is there when I pull out as soon as it passes me..

But if the the driver has been other driver has been in the blind spot for 20 - 30 seconds?

[irc]

But if the the driver has been other driver has been in the blind spot for 20 - 30 seconds?

Maybe I should have been clearer. If there is no traffic passing me I shoulder check the blind spot. If I check my mirrors for 20-30 seconds and there is nothing there apart from one vehicle that then goes through my blindspot and any other traffic is a good distance behind I assume rightly or wrongly there isn't another vehicle in the blindspot.

This is relatively low traffic motorways I'm talking about. Busy roads/motorways I always shoulder check.

[[XAP]Bob]

I have spent a lot of my life as professional driver and I follow the same routine. I watch each car in to my blind spot and I watch it out. However on more than one occasion I have found somebody who has positioned themselves in my blind spot and stayed there, matching my speed and not overtaking and managed to trick me..

But that can't happen when I've just watched a car approach then overtake me as it has passed through the blind spot meaning nothing else is there when I pull out as soon as it passes me..

But if the the driver has been other driver has been in the blind spot for 20 - 30 seconds?

Then you're being a goldfish. You saw them go in, and haven't seen them leave....

I suffer from this on motorways, only doing 70 means that overtaking can take a while, and if the person I am overtaking is also overtaking a lorry then I will be in lane 3. As I get to the point where they are in an area not served by my mirrors they can pull back to lane 1, where there is a much larger area not served by my mirrors. I won't pull back in until I have confirmed that they are now in lane 1.
Often I have a passenger I can trust, otherwise it's a complete turn of the head to find them.

Yes it takes attention away from the road ahead, but that's OK - the road ahead is generally clear (or I probably wouldn't be trying to pull in)

[drossall]

Interestingly, on the subject of bright clothing, you can find similar discussions in the motorbike world, where wearing high-viz and using DRLs is drummed into you when you do your training - and yet a lot of the clothing and helmets are dark in colour...

A motorcyclist friend told me that many like to dress as much like police riders as is possible without actually getting done for impersonation. Again, police jackets etc. are not more visible than civilian ones (how could they be?), but they are more seen. It's as much about the reaction as the visibility - as any of us who has had the "Where did he come from?" experience knows.

[Cunobelin]

I remember back in the 80s there was an article where a rider had tried out various clothing to see which was safest

His conclusion that wearing a black suit with silver buttons on the shoulder was the safest!

It is down to consequences, and the drivers often see an item, but dismiss and fail to process if it has no immediate effect

[PaulB]

Interestingly, on the subject of bright clothing, you can find similar discussions in the motorbike world, where wearing high-viz and using DRLs is drummed into you when you do your training - and yet a lot of the clothing and helmets are dark in colour...

A motorcyclist friend told me that many like to dress as much like police riders as is possible without actually getting done for impersonation. Again, police jackets etc. are not more visible than civilian ones (how could they be?), but they are more seen. It's as much about the reaction as the visibility - as any of us who has had the "Where did he come from?" experience knows.

When I had my Honda 750 motorcycle fitted with a white fairing, motorists still pulled out in front of me. I then applied the orange "day-glow" stripes to it with reflective blue liners (as was the case back then for police bikes) and suddenly everyone could see me! I just had to ride up behind a car to see its brake lights go on!

[broadway]

But that can't happen when I've just watched a car approach then overtake me as it has passed through the blind spot meaning nothing else is there when I pull out as soon as it passes me..

But if the the driver has been other driver has been in the blind spot for 20 - 30 seconds?

Then you're being a goldfish. You saw them go in, and haven't seen them leave....

You follow every vehicle that goes past in your mirrors? Somehow I fail to believe that you have tracked every single one.

[[XAP]Bob]

You follow every vehicle that goes past in your mirrors? Somehow I fail to believe that you have tracked every single one.

a) no - although I *do* track most of them
b) the premise was that watching a vehicle move through the blind spot ensured that there wasn't a vehicle that had been sitting there for 30 seconds.

(Apologies quote limit means I've had to strip context)

[SP]

It's fortunate that accidents are rare, especially rear end shunts, since that fact offers more reassurance on a daily basis than any of the gear (helmets, high viz, good road behaviour).

Unfortunately, as lots of posts have pointed out, since Rule 59 of the highway code says 'You should wear' re helmet and light-coloured or fluorescent clothing, then, should one be a victim of an injury caused by a driver the courts do seem to take not wearing such things as evidence that the cyclist (or pedestrian) victim is partly to blame.

I have dependants and am aware of the chance that any damages / insurance resulting from my serious injury or death would be reduced.

I therefore wear a helmet and 'high viz' - I don't think it makes me measurably less likely to be hit, but 'just in case'!

Meanwhile I dream of Holland or Denmark and '20's plenty'.

Regards,

Steve