And unlike the UK in most Japanese households only one partner works so the disparity in household income is even more marked.
Apologies, I don't know what it was that I looked at, but I was looking at a completely wrong number I can't find again. I do recall being very surprised by it at the time and stared at it several times to convince myself.
For the purpose of comparing affordability of a local price to local wages, then it is important to use actual money at actual exchange rate, not PPP exchange rates, because those are already adjusted for the general affordability of local prices. I think the ones you quote are after tax and at PPP. This dataset shows (in the bottom row) current money, and before tax, which therefore comes out rather higher than the above. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=AV_AN_WAGE UK = $49k, Jap = $41k
So, not only are the Japanese trains sodding expensive, after correcting for local wages, they are even more expensive.
Ben@Forest wrote: Is this feasible? At 270 mph 19 miles takes 4 minutes and 13 seconds. Can it accelerate to 270 mph for any meaningful distance before having to start slowing down? Even if it is feasible it seems an odd investment, how much electrical power is required to get the train up to that speed just to start decelerating? I can understand wanting to travel at 270 mph if you have say 300 or more miles to cover but surely covering 19 miles in 20 minutes would be perfectly adequate?
TonyR wrote:The maglev that has been running for years between Shanghai Airport and Pudong runs a regular service at 270mph over the 19 mile journey and has reached the 500kph/311mph speed in passengerless tests.
Is this feasible? At 270 mph 19 miles takes 4 minutes and 13 seconds. Can it accelerate to 270 mph for any meaningful distance before having to start slowing down? Even if it is feasible it seems an odd investment, how much electrical power is required to get the train up to that speed just to start decelerating? I can understand wanting to travel at 270 mph if you have say 300 or more miles to cover but surely covering 19 miles in 20 minutes would be perfectly adequate?
The full name of the Shanghai maglev train is the Shanghai Maglev Demonstration Operation Line, which gives a clue as to why they built it even though it seems a bit silly to have something that fast for such a short run. Its run time is 7m20s so it achieves an average speed of 180mph including acceleration and braking. It was originally envisaged that it might be extended to a much longer long distance high speed line connecting Shanghai to other major cities. But I think they learned from doing this project that Maglev was just too horribly expensive to build to adopt as a technology for long distance lines, and so they built a conventional high speed line through Shanghai instead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train
Flinders wrote:Japanese trains are faster, but so are a lot of European trains, and they are far cheaper than here.
Can you really travel in Germany or France or Netherlands at the kind of prices you can pay for Advance tickets in Britain? It really is a bit more complicated than "it's cheaper elsewhere".
One of the reasons that trains are cheaper in other countries is that they subsidise them more comprehensively. One of the reasons they can afford that is that they often make less intensive use of trains than we do, services are actually inferior. I was surprised to discover that even the Netherlands has less dense railway coverage than Britain. If you want British trains to be cheaper all the time, then inevitably subsidies have to rise. And with higher subsidies, there'll be less spending on railway improvements. It's very easy to say "I'd like the government to spend more money on this" and less easy to suggest what he should spend less on in consequence.
iviehoff wrote:One of the reasons that trains are cheaper in other countries is that they subsidise them more comprehensively. One of the reasons they can afford that is that they often make less intensive use of trains than we do, services are actually inferior.
This is definitely true. Four years ago we went on holiday to France using trains and buses. Our last stage was Limoges to Poitiers to pick up the TGV back to Paris. On that day (which was a Monday) there were three journeys available and you can compare the two cities to say York to Derby (where there is probably 23 services a day). Not only that but a substantial amount of the journey was on a single track only. Finally on that holiday, where we probably used seven or eight train services three of them had bus replacement services.
iviehoff wrote:One of the reasons that trains are cheaper in other countries is that they subsidise them more comprehensively.
Which means they only give the illusion of being cheaper. The subsidies come from the taxes people pay so they are paying an additional indirect cost on top of the visible direct cost
iviehoff wrote:One of the reasons that trains are cheaper in other countries is that they subsidise them more comprehensively.
Which means they only give the illusion of being cheaper. The subsidies come from the taxes people pay so they are paying an additional indirect cost on top of the visible direct cost
But that additional cost is met by all the relevant tax payers rather than falling on the individuals using the service.
Or the Greek national railways. Running costs of €1Bn, ticket sales of €100m and even the cleaners got paid c€60k p.a. And they wonder why the country went bust.
TonyR wrote:Or the Greek national railways. Running costs of €1Bn, ticket sales of €100m and even the cleaners got paid c€60k p.a. And they wonder why the country went bust.
The Greek railways are an extreme case, and quite a few of the more ridiculous lines have been forced to close of late. They did build some beautiful new lines around Athens recently, though a city the size of and density of Athens probably needed those.
iviehoff wrote:One of the reasons that trains are cheaper in other countries is that they subsidise them more comprehensively.
Which means they only give the illusion of being cheaper. The subsidies come from the taxes people pay so they are paying an additional indirect cost on top of the visible direct cost
But that additional cost is met by all the relevant tax payers rather than falling on the individuals using the service.
Yes, so you and I are subsidising the fares of London commuters. And the rationale for that is?
I wasn't attempting to justify subsidy (though I can think of far worse things to subsidise) just pointing out that subsidising does affect the cost as far as the individual customer is concerned.
Bicycler wrote:I wasn't attempting to justify subsidy (though I can think of far worse things to subsidise) just pointing out that subsidising does affect the cost as far as the individual customer is concerned.
Maybe but it's still costing them much more than the ticket price would suggest. And the bigger the subsidy the larger the hidden cost to the user is.
I hate HS2. Its going to be a waste of b38462ing money.
Its gonna ruin parts of rural England,dicing up land that's arable,scenic,bicycle/walking friendly country,making this increasingly urbanised country even more diced and sliced by infrastructure. From the railway will come depots,following the depots,powerlines,following the powerlines,inbuilding: you get the picture. By normal(but perverse?) reasoning I shouldn't really care: it's going through toff country the track cuts(and hasn't Clarkson got a place down there. That's one good reason to have it built!)But in this small,and increasingly overcrowded island,I like to see some vestiges of green left: it makes me feel good.
What's with the saved journey time?? Birmingham - London. 20 minutes!! For x billions!! And most business people are working on phones and computers on the train...so no work time lost. Why are we wanting to scar the country?
I read something about more people wanting to travel more frequently on trains. Demand up,up,up. But then someone suggested having longer trains...then building longer platforms to accommodate the trains. Wotstheargumentagainstthis! Where's Beppoo Grillo when you need him?
