I Hate Virgin Trains

[Mark1978]

Many years ago, in the great days when trains had proper guard's vans

Quite...

And when they used to hold connections.

Passivisation and performance targets / penalties can lead to some perverse outcomes.

[bikepacker]

Last Sunday I met up with some friends for a ride. at the coffee stop a guy I had never seen before told us a tale of the problems he encountered getting to Lands End for an E2E earlier this year. At length he described the problems he had with Virgin Trains getting down to Penzance. One train was late and he missed a connection etc. etc. At every opportunity he blamed Virgin Trains. I was about to say something when one of the others asked him to clarify the train operator. Those bas***ds Virgin Trains he said in a raised voice. It was then pointed out by everyone else there that for his journey from Cheltenham to Penzance he could not have used Virgin Trains. They gave up that franchise in 2004.

[mjr]

Last Sunday I met up with some friends for a ride. at the coffee stop a guy I had never seen before told us a tale of the problems he encountered getting to Lands End for an E2E earlier this year. At length he described the problems he had with Virgin Trains getting down to Penzance. One train was late and he missed a connection etc. etc. At every opportunity he blamed Virgin Trains. I was about to say something when one of the others asked him to clarify the train operator. Those bas***ds Virgin Trains he said in a raised voice. It was then pointed out by everyone else there that for his journey from Cheltenham to Penzance he could not have used Virgin Trains. They gave up that franchise in 2004.

2007 but I only know that because I used them from Weston-super-Mare to Birmingham and Taunton in 2006/7 and it took a noticeable step backwards under Arriva, losing many of the best features like the shop/buffets and some legendary staff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_CrossCountry

Cross Country did used to get screwed pretty often both by connections from other companies not waiting and more severely by any delay making them miss their timings through one company's area, have to wait for everything, then the same problem at the next franchise area and just get later and later for the rest of the journey or until the following service on the route an hour or two later caught them up. It was the same under 1990s sectorised BR, too. At least now they might have it slightly better through Birmingham.

[binka]

Regarding folding bikes - their own policy states "However, if it folds up, then it can travel for nothing without reservation". Nothing about wheel sizes etc, but equally nothing about whether it has to go in the luggage van.

Wonder if that includes Ice Trikes?

[Jughead]

Despite all your well put points I still hate Virgin Trains. Their now charging me more for the same [inappropriate word removed] service. So I hate them more (and Scotrail)

By the way, don't you find trains are cancelled for the slightest of excuses nowadays.
I mean, who would have thought we would have beaten the leaves on the line excuse? An absolute topper.
However, it gets a bit windy and rainy and their cancelled. I mean trains are really feckin heavy. How does a blustery day cancel a train? Seriously, Are they playing politics?

[[XAP]Bob]

Regarding folding bikes - their own policy states "However, if it folds up, then it can travel for nothing without reservation". Nothing about wheel sizes etc, but equally nothing about whether it has to go in the luggage van.

Wonder if that includes Ice Trikes?

Yes, but you'll need a bag of some sort...

[Sweep]

Northern rail are best, rubbish trains but lots of space and no restrictions or booking, just hop on and off, very helpful. .

I agree about Northern. Perhaps they have improved some trains recently but some of them have seemed to me like tin cans on wheels. They do seem very reasonable and easygoing with bikes though as you say and for this they are ti be aplauded

[Flinders]

Despite all your well put points I still hate Virgin Trains. Their now charging me more for the same <i>[inappropriate word removed]</i> service. So I hate them more (and Scotrail)

By the way, don't you find trains are cancelled for the slightest of excuses nowadays.
I mean, who would have thought we would have beaten the leaves on the line excuse? An absolute topper.
However, it gets a bit windy and rainy and their cancelled. I mean trains are really feckin heavy. How does a blustery day cancel a train? Seriously, Are they playing politics?

I can't stand Virgin either. But leaves on the line are a real problem. They grind up under successive train wheels into a paste which acts like grease on the line, making it lethal - a bit like having grease on your rims if you have caliper brakes. Trains have long stopping distances at the best of times. The solutions are running special trains with equipment to clear the leaves and/or cutting back or cutting down trees and shrubs close to lines.
Wind certainly might affect the lighter multiple units if there was a strong cross wind, especially on bridges. I think a train once derailed on the long bridge over Morecambe Bay due to a strong cross wind. Going back further, one of the contributory causes of the fall of the Tay Bridge complete with an entire train (no survivors) was strong cross winds.

[Bicycler]

There's a story of new cars being blown from their wagons off the Ribblehead viaduct

[Flinders]

There's a story of new cars being blown from their wagons off the Ribblehead viaduct

I wouldn't be surprised, it can get jolly windy there and the viaduct is as exposed as it gets.
In RTC Rolt's book Red for Danger* he mentions an old chap who used to work on the railway up there, who he knew when he was a kid. The old chap told him about the turntable incident (when a steam locomotive on the turntable caught the wind and just kept going round and round). The chap also told him the tale of a platelayer being blown off the viaduct and back up the other side, but even as a kid Rolt didn't believe that (though he says he was too polite to say so- kids were a bit more respectful of their elders in those days ).

* a brilliant read for people interested in the history of rail safety

[tyreon]

Can I make complaint?

I want to know why a return journey is but a few pence more than a single journey by train. I would often like to cycle out some 60 miles from where I live to catch a train back...but paying just a few pence less for a single ticket than a return ticket would cost seems somewhat unfair. Of course,I could buy a return ticket,then put up the ticket on some 'gratis' board for some passenger returning to the station I had left earlier. That would be a 'giveaway' ...but one I fear our train operators would not endorse. From memory,the underground staff used 'to go spare' when I used to giveaway(gratis) my all-day purchased ticket when I had finished my journey(s)

FWIW I'm always frightened taking my bike by train. You have rules and regs to deal with. Then the inadequate storage for bikes. Dunno how any disabled people in a wheelchair get on trains in wheelchairs!!

[Bicycler]

Yeah, they are not transferable and I suspect it constitutes a offence under the railway bylaws. I'll agree that the single fares are annoying though.

[bikepacker]

Get a 30 day return. Go out on the outward ticket and cycle back, then do the reverse within the 30 days.

[Flinders]

Can I make complaint?

I want to know why a return journey is but a few pence more than a single journey by train. I would often like to cycle out some 60 miles from where I live to catch a train back...but paying just a few pence less for a single ticket than a return ticket would cost seems somewhat unfair. Of course,I could buy a return ticket,then put up the ticket on some 'gratis' board for some passenger returning to the station I had left earlier. That would be a 'giveaway' ...but one I fear our train operators would not endorse. From memory,the underground staff used 'to go spare' when I used to giveaway(gratis) my all-day purchased ticket when I had finished my journey(s)

FWIW I'm always frightened taking my bike by train. You have rules and regs to deal with. Then the inadequate storage for bikes. Dunno how any disabled people in a wheelchair get on trains in wheelchairs!!

I was talking to someone today who had just found that the cheapest return air fare to the USA later this week was cheaper than the cheapest single (a single is what she wanted). That's really insane, as a passenger on an airline must have a higher marginal cost than one on a train.

[iviehoff]

However, it gets a bit windy and rainy and their cancelled. I mean trains are really feckin heavy. How does a blustery day cancel a train?

I can't stand Virgin either. But leaves on the line are a real problem. They grind up under successive train wheels into a paste which acts like grease on the line, making it lethal - a bit like having grease on your rims if you have caliper brakes. Trains have long stopping distances at the best of times. The solutions are running special trains with equipment to clear the leaves and/or cutting back or cutting down trees and shrubs close to lines.
Wind certainly might affect the lighter multiple units if there was a strong cross wind, especially on bridges. I think a train once derailed on the long bridge over Morecambe Bay due to a strong cross wind. Going back further, one of the contributory causes of the fall of the Tay Bridge complete with an entire train (no survivors) was strong cross winds.

Strong wind can be an issue for overhead wires, which remain a major cause of train delays on overhead electrified lines. There are a few exposed locations that need careful management in strong winds - two passing trains side-swiped in strong winds on a viaduct near Newcastle a while back, which was nearly a serious incident.

A combination of strong wind and rain in autumn can bring a large number of wet leaves down in a hurry and cause a leaves-on-the-line problem in places that wouldn't normally justify special measures to counteract it. Wet leaves are the worst kind for trains. On my line in leafy S Bucks/SW Herts, as well as actively controlling the vegetation, they also regularly spread glue-sand-mix and have a special train to do it, but heavy rain can wash it off. Whilst the braking is an important issue, another big problem is that a wodge of squished leaves can build up in front of a non-driving wheel, which then slides rather than rolling, which wears a flat in the wheel surface if it slides too far. When that wheel, now non-round, starts rolling again, it is damaging, noisy and uncomfortable.