NATURAL ANKLING wrote:... the officer would have to give some sort of account of your allegations....
Police Thugs
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Re: Police Thugs
- NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Police Thugs
Hi,
Did'nt mean to muddy the waters, Of couse the officer does not give an account of your allegations.
They give an account of their actions or not
What they going to say..............it happened just like you said it..............dont hold your breath.....well you already know that anyway.
thirdcrank wrote:NATURAL ANKLING wrote:... the officer would have to give some sort of account of your allegations....
Did'nt mean to muddy the waters, Of couse the officer does not give an account of your allegations.
They give an account of their actions or not
What they going to say..............it happened just like you said it..............dont hold your breath.....well you already know that anyway.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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Re: Police Thugs
The only point I would make is that unless something has changed recently, any interview of a suspect whether or not they are a police officer begins with a caution telling them of their right to say nothing, although it's now pointed out that saying nothing may be the subject of later comment, which does give some incentive to answer allegations rather than to "no reply."
Beyond that and AFAIK, "local resolution" isn't the same thing as "informal resolution." The former is a relatively recent addition to the forms of disposal available in criminal investigations. The latter, which has now been around quite a long time - possibly 30 years - is a way of some dealing with public complaints against the police. (The details will have been changed since I retired, particularly with the establishment of the IPCC.)
Beyond that and AFAIK, "local resolution" isn't the same thing as "informal resolution." The former is a relatively recent addition to the forms of disposal available in criminal investigations. The latter, which has now been around quite a long time - possibly 30 years - is a way of some dealing with public complaints against the police. (The details will have been changed since I retired, particularly with the establishment of the IPCC.)
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Re: Police Thugs
I promised a follow up when I received word, and I just have.
Its too much manure to comment on and give it any more time than it deserves.
And people wonder why it isnt worth complaining?
Here it is:
INVESTIGATION
On 10/12/13 you attended Lewisham Police Station stating that whilst you were cycling along New Cross Rd towards Greenwich you were stopped by an officer who was not wearing reflective clothing. You say you did not see the officer. As you passed the officer you assert that the officer grabbed you causing you to brake sharply. You say this action was dangerous.
I have obtained a detailed statement from you which provides your account of the incident.
I spoke to the officer and she has provided an account of the incident. She denies grabbing you and states that she was wearing her reflective jacket.
I have obtained an account of the incident from the two PCSOs who were present in the locality. They both state that they did not see the incident to which you refer. One officer states she only became aware of a conversation that took place between you and SPC *******.
I reviewed CCTV coverage from Lewisham Council. The camera does not cover the part of the road where you were stopped. It provides no relevant evidence.
When I obtained your statement you refused to sign a medical disclosure form that would have allowed me to obtain details of any injuries you sustained, in this incident, from your GP. You did, however, state that I could apply for this information within the body of your statement.
On 24/1/14 I included a copy of this part of your statement in a letter to your GP requesting details of any injuries you had sustained. I have had no information returned from your GP.
CONCLUSIONS
In these circumstances I am satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that SPC ******* has not breached the standards of professional behaviour. This means there is no case to answer.
Its too much manure to comment on and give it any more time than it deserves.
And people wonder why it isnt worth complaining?
Here it is:
INVESTIGATION
On 10/12/13 you attended Lewisham Police Station stating that whilst you were cycling along New Cross Rd towards Greenwich you were stopped by an officer who was not wearing reflective clothing. You say you did not see the officer. As you passed the officer you assert that the officer grabbed you causing you to brake sharply. You say this action was dangerous.
I have obtained a detailed statement from you which provides your account of the incident.
I spoke to the officer and she has provided an account of the incident. She denies grabbing you and states that she was wearing her reflective jacket.
I have obtained an account of the incident from the two PCSOs who were present in the locality. They both state that they did not see the incident to which you refer. One officer states she only became aware of a conversation that took place between you and SPC *******.
I reviewed CCTV coverage from Lewisham Council. The camera does not cover the part of the road where you were stopped. It provides no relevant evidence.
When I obtained your statement you refused to sign a medical disclosure form that would have allowed me to obtain details of any injuries you sustained, in this incident, from your GP. You did, however, state that I could apply for this information within the body of your statement.
On 24/1/14 I included a copy of this part of your statement in a letter to your GP requesting details of any injuries you had sustained. I have had no information returned from your GP.
CONCLUSIONS
In these circumstances I am satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that SPC ******* has not breached the standards of professional behaviour. This means there is no case to answer.
- ArMoRothair
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Re: Police Thugs
fluffybunnyuk wrote:I reviewed CCTV coverage from Lewisham Council. The camera does not cover the part of the road where you were stopped. It provides no relevant evidence.
Like they reviewed the footage of the Andrew Mitchell 'plebgate' affair. Perhaps you need to employ Channel 4 to unearth the footage.
Re: Police Thugs
It should at least show whether or not the person in question was wearing high vis...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Police Thugs
If making a complaint like this, you should be able to gather your own evidence. Record your conversation wit the police officer on your mobile phone or helmet cam. Take a photo of the officer who stopped you. This would provide the evidence to back up your claim. Without such evidence, it's your word against theirs.
We've seen cases where the helmet cam evidence makes the Police's action look heavy handed and inappropriate. The recent case where a guy was cycling on a rubbish cycle path and had to ride across the pavement to reach a crossing point and was charged with cycling on the pavement.
Also, my old law teacher once said to me, if you ever get stopped by the police just say to them "Arrest me or let me go". If you've not committed an offence then they can't arrest you and you can just carry on your way.
We've seen cases where the helmet cam evidence makes the Police's action look heavy handed and inappropriate. The recent case where a guy was cycling on a rubbish cycle path and had to ride across the pavement to reach a crossing point and was charged with cycling on the pavement.
Also, my old law teacher once said to me, if you ever get stopped by the police just say to them "Arrest me or let me go". If you've not committed an offence then they can't arrest you and you can just carry on your way.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Re: Police Thugs
Your word against theirs.
Trouble is, their word is taken as truth, and your word is suspect .......... until the real truth comes out ........... and that's the hard part.
Trouble is, their word is taken as truth, and your word is suspect .......... until the real truth comes out ........... and that's the hard part.
Mick F. Cornwall
- NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Police Thugs
Hi,
Good Mick F.
My case the pc on phone asked me to describe the offender, he then said "I know him"
At my house he made no notes but passed judgement on my ctv evidence saying "six of one half a dozen of the other"
He laughed and left the house quoting me " In anger management you see yourself looking in the mirror"
I also videoed on ctc him going to the offenders house before me and being greeted by my aledged offender " Hi alright" then walked through the door
So how did my offender know he was coming and the greeting was not that of a pc coming to your house, is that what they normally say unless they phone first
When pc's come to my house as seldom as they do they either say who they are or just ask a question about a car down the road stuffed in a wall.
When I complaind he said (pc) that he did not know my offender...............................
Stinks rotten
Edited - P.S. the pc is now a Sergent ......promotion too..............
Good Mick F.
My case the pc on phone asked me to describe the offender, he then said "I know him"
At my house he made no notes but passed judgement on my ctv evidence saying "six of one half a dozen of the other"
He laughed and left the house quoting me " In anger management you see yourself looking in the mirror"
I also videoed on ctc him going to the offenders house before me and being greeted by my aledged offender " Hi alright" then walked through the door
So how did my offender know he was coming and the greeting was not that of a pc coming to your house, is that what they normally say unless they phone first
When pc's come to my house as seldom as they do they either say who they are or just ask a question about a car down the road stuffed in a wall.
When I complaind he said (pc) that he did not know my offender...............................
Stinks rotten
Edited - P.S. the pc is now a Sergent ......promotion too..............
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: Police Thugs
I've heard it suggested that the British Police's tagline should be "Not As Corrupt As Some Other Police Forces".
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Re: Police Thugs
I would like to thank everyone for their comments, its been most uplifting when dealing with this. The support, advice from Jenny Jones, Roger Geffin, and others has been invaluable.
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Re: Police Thugs
fluffybunnyuk wrote:I would like to thank everyone for their comments, its been most uplifting when dealing with this. The support, advice from Jenny Jones, Roger Geffin, and others has been invaluable. (My emphasis)
Without breaching any confidences, perhaps it's possible to disclose what they advised. There has been a suggestion on another tread about a rider being stopped by the police that there might usefully be some common response to these occurrences.
Re: Police Thugs
It seems to me that it is high time the CTC approached the police officially and got some guidance.
What is a citizen supposed to do when faced with this sort of thing? Back off and report it, record it, stand their ground, or what?
I think an advice card, maybe the size of a credit card, which we could all carry might be useful. Like I said elsewhere, photographers do this. They have done it in response to individual police officers claiming that they had no right to take photographs (when they did) and the like. And those trying to confiscate equipment or delete images, which they are not allowed to do except in very exceptional circumstances, and then arresting people simply for not complying with an illegal instruction.
Some of this is bad training; officers simply not knowing what the law is. That's their employer's fault. But some of it is clearly bullying - sometimes including even lying, which is very worrying. If this is happening with minor offences, how can we trust the police on other greater ones? I used to, but it's getting much more difficult to do so.
What is a citizen supposed to do when faced with this sort of thing? Back off and report it, record it, stand their ground, or what?
I think an advice card, maybe the size of a credit card, which we could all carry might be useful. Like I said elsewhere, photographers do this. They have done it in response to individual police officers claiming that they had no right to take photographs (when they did) and the like. And those trying to confiscate equipment or delete images, which they are not allowed to do except in very exceptional circumstances, and then arresting people simply for not complying with an illegal instruction.
Some of this is bad training; officers simply not knowing what the law is. That's their employer's fault. But some of it is clearly bullying - sometimes including even lying, which is very worrying. If this is happening with minor offences, how can we trust the police on other greater ones? I used to, but it's getting much more difficult to do so.
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Re: Police Thugs
Flinders wrote:It seems to me that it is high time the CTC approached the police officially and got some guidance. ...
Even I find the idea of approaching the police for guidance over this a bit strange.
I've been trying - especially in the other thread I started - to get some sort of measure about how often this type of thing happens and the number of cases quoted seems small; nobody else has reported being physically stopped by the police, rather than signalled to stop, so that they might be given road safety advice or whatever.
Quite a lot of advice has been given in this thread to the OP; people are free to make up their own mind about which advice they follow, of course, but some choices must surely affect the outcome. eg If medical evidence is withheld in an allegation of assault, it's unlikely to go very far.
Re: Police Thugs
third crank wrote:Even I find the idea of approaching the police for guidance over this a bit strange.
Dunno. It was an army check-point, not the police, but I recall doing just that in Montreal during a perceived insurrection of Quebec separatists in the 1970's. Blissfully unaware that the army had been sent in 'to ensure the safety of the citizens' after the kidnapping of a British diplomat, I was walking home in the dark through a park in the neighbourhood where the kidnapping had taken place.
A man in uniform stepped into the path and I could just make out a figure with a submachine gun behind the trees on either side. I didn't wait for the man in charge to speak — I knew my rights and I knew how to stand up for them! As I heard the safety catches clicked off the guns on both sides of me I drew myself up to my full height and said (in a very small and polite voice), "What would you like me to do?"