The War on Britain's Roads

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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Simon L6 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:52 pm

well, it's all over the Guardian website now. Roger Geffen is complaining about it. Has he seen it? Somehow I doubt it. And who is this Parker geezer?

We've got the DVD here and I might look at it tomorrow, but, to be honest I'm not bothered overmuch. It's a telly programme and nothing more. It won't even be next week's chip paper. And, as you say TC, the trailer is just a trailer. As my esteemed and popular better half said this morning - they can re-cut the entire thing in a day if they want to.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Ayesha » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:54 am

I just Googled "YouTube Cyclist being nice".

There was nothing. No videos of cyclists and motorists being nice to each other.

What there was though was some vids from cyclists talking about 'Cycle friendly cities' and a couple of motorists posting vids of 'Why can't cyclists be nice?"

If 0.5% of a cyclist's experiences on the road are bad ones, where are the vids of the other 99.5% of his/her experiences?
On the cutting room floor because they are not deemed useful to 'stir the ****'.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby gentlegreen » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:50 pm

There are remarkably few videos of bad cyclist behaviour shot by the motoring fraternity - for all their "red light / pavements / no lights" protestations .
It's got to the point that I subscribe to the trolls now.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Simon L6 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:24 pm

Ayesha wrote:I just Googled "YouTube Cyclist being nice".

There was nothing. No videos of cyclists and motorists being nice to each other.

What there was though was some vids from cyclists talking about 'Cycle friendly cities' and a couple of motorists posting vids of 'Why can't cyclists be nice?"

If 0.5% of a cyclist's experiences on the road are bad ones, where are the vids of the other 99.5% of his/her experiences?
On the cutting room floor because they are not deemed useful to 'stir the ****'.

why not take a look at CyclingMikey's (aka BentMikcy) ouevre. He's been doing this headcam thing longer than anybody else and he makes it clear that his videos are of exceptional behaviour. His contention, one that most sensible people would share, it that cycling is enjoyable, healthy and safe.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Coffee » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:07 pm

.
Last edited by Coffee on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rule 63

Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white VAN (which may be broken) along the carriageway (see Rule 140). Keep within the lane when practicable, watch out for Anna Meares elbows.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby chazza » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:29 pm

Simon L6 wrote:well, it's all over the Guardian website now. Roger Geffen is complaining about it. Has he seen it? Somehow I doubt it. And who is this Parker geezer?

We've got the DVD here and I might look at it tomorrow, but, to be honest I'm not bothered overmuch. It's a telly programme and nothing more. It won't even be next week's chip paper. And, as you say TC, the trailer is just a trailer. As my esteemed and popular better half said this morning - they can re-cut the entire thing in a day if they want to.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/30/cycling-documentary-bbc1-road
Roger G and Chris P have seen a near final edit of Wednesday's show. As Simon L6 says there is time to re-edit the film. There are some really good parts of this programme but using multiple and lengthy cuts of Brunelle's set up film of deliberate, reckless, illegal cycling without any real context is a major professional and ethical failure. Without that sensationalist rubbish the film is still extremely powerul, exploring how a moment's inattention or carelessness can lead to rage and violence or inexpressible tragedy.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby thirdcrank » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:08 pm

Simon L6

One thing that baffles me is that why this seems to have ruffled your feathers so. :?

You say you put the programme makers in touch with some cyclists - that's hardly a sin. Neither is the familly connection you have declared above.

Has there been some controversy elsewhere - perhaps on another forum or behind the scenes?

Incidentally, if I've read the linked article in The Guardian correctly, the CTC people quoted have seen that paper's advance copy.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Simon L6 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:05 pm

it hasn't at all - other than I do have a standing objection to CTC Campaigns getting worked up about stuff that is ephemeral when they might be better employed....campaigning.

The Guardian doesn't have an advance copy. Nobody has an advance copy, in the sense that these things get sliced and diced up until the last moment (the copy downstairs might or might not be accurate. Programmes can be delivered within half an hour of broadcast and frequently are, and if the PR company advises changes this week, those changes might be made. The Guardian has, quite cleverly, stitched together some youtube footage that they are pretty sure is going to be in the programme but they may be wrong. In the end, though, it's a television programme, and, while it makes easy headlines, the Chris Peck/Roger Geffen reaction to it is the first thing I've heard from them in months, while, at the same time, I get anything up to a dozen e-mails a week from Lambeth Cyclists telling me that this or that is going on near to me.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby thirdcrank » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:05 pm

I don't think it's a secret that I've been no cheerleader for CTC campaigning over the last 15 years or so, but when I saw CP's quite understated post on the other thread which was immediately locked as a duplicate, my reaction - based on the assumption that he was only commenting on the trailer - was to think that was something I could agree with.

To me, this is a serious subject, deserving serious treatment. Cyclists are now one of the few minorities - I can't think of another - it's Ok to slag off openly. It may only be a trailer, but IMO it's a disgrace. It will still be a disgrace if the programme is a serious study of a serious problem or 30 minutes or whatever of more of what's been actively trailed.

I see that the BBC's spokesman talks about balance. It will be interesting to see what's balanced with what. That's if I bother to watch it. I'll record it and let the dust die down a bit before I decide whether it's worth half an hour of my time. (Obviously, I'll not comment on the actual programme if I don't bother to watch it.)
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Ayesha » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:13 pm

Simon L6's avatar reminds me of a guy on CycleChat called "Powderpuffed", or something like that.

IIRC, he also argued with a Canadian guy about the existence or non-existence of God. I could be mistaken, it got extremely tedious so I forgot it.

I am also reminded of those other very tedious threads on CycleChat where they argued for weeks about the pros and cons of 'Camming'.

This thread now is gonna be a carbon copy of several dozen threads on CycleChat, if we're not careful.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Simon L6 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:25 am

TC - I'm sorry that you think that the trailer is a disgrace. If the Brunelle footage makes it in to the programme, then it's dumb, but I'm not sure that I'd be upset about it. When all is said and done, telly is telly. It comes, it goes. It matters not. A week from now it will be forgotten by all but three people on a cycling forum.

If you're looking for insight, intelligence or even sentences in some kind of order, read a book or a decent newspaper. The people who make telly are generally representative of their audience, which is to say not very bright, not well informed and not particularly interested in bettering themselves, and the programmes they push out form a kind of sheen over life that reflects nothing and says little. I'm not dismissing the medium - I'm a Strictly addict - but I don't look to it for intellectual inspiration, any more than I'd read the sports pages of the Mirror in the hope of uncovering the poetry inherent in physical activity. Then again people in my line of work aren't that clever, and Ayesha's 'late night' effort offers convincing evidence that cyclists aren't always the brightest sparks in the firmament, so perhaps we get the telly we deserve.

We've all of us seen news footage on something we know a little about and thought 'that's not right'. Why would we expect any better from 'light entertainment'? On the other hand we do think of the CTC as a body of knowledge, and, in this respect, we're sometimes disappointed. When I look at the wodge of e-mails from the LCC keeping me up to speed (tish-boom) on the spread of 20mph zones in my Borough I marvel at the effort and command of detail that lies therein, and know full well that those 20mph zones haven't arrived by accident - somebody has argued for them consistently over time. If the CTC were able to marshal the knowledge and will to get the kind of results that make a real difference in our streets, that would be something.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby thirdcrank » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:09 am

Simon L6

I'd certainly not have bothered to raise this if there hadn't already been a thread. I'd not have posted more than once if you hadn't made a (regrettably ) rare post (and in spite of what you say, seeming pretty miffed.) Bearing in mind things like the recent pronouncement on segregation, this seems strange as a subject for disagreeing with the CTC approach.

I'd agree with what you say about the telly, which is why I so rarely watch it. However, to say it's generally crap is a poor justification for more of the same.

Anyway, enough of the trivialities - let's get down to the important stuff. A Strictly come dancing viewer? :shock: :shock: :shock: Another of my heroes bites the dust. :(

:wink:
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Simon L6 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:34 am

I take your point on the segregation thing. There are times when it's best to say nothing, and that was one of them.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby Geriatrix » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:55 am

Coffee wrote:I think there is just a general problem with attitude on the roads.

I fully agree, and attitudes are being polarised by perception and prejudice.

Cyclists are accused of making up the rules as they go. As a generalisation this is true and because cyclists do it in the most visible possible manner so its not difficult to collect the evidence. Motorists however play just as hard and fast with the rules but with the difference that their lawbreaking is less visible, and they don't see their own behaviour as anti-social. As road users they overwhelmingly make up the numbers so their views make up public opinion.

As someone who has posted footage on YouTube, I'll hold my judgment till I've seen the program. From what I have read so far on cyclist objections, a lot appears to be the inclusion of a clip showing of some rather anarchic cycle courier footage from YouTube, and the portrayal of this footage as being representative of cyclist behaviour.

The difference between an incident that causes a fatality and one that doesn't is chance. In my view I still experience too many incidences that can only be attrbuted to driver impatience, negligence or indifference. I will continue to film my journeys in case chance one day goes against me, and I would like a record to remain that would allow my dependents to make a civil claim. I will also continue to post on YouTube when I think the incident merits it.
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Postby kwackers » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:46 am

Geriatrix wrote:Motorists however play just as hard and fast with the rules but with the difference that their lawbreaking is less visible,

Actually that's were you're wrong, they're just as visible.
The problem is they're all at it in one way or another so act as a group looking after each others backs.

Cyclists on the other hand seem to be embroiled in an internal war of blame: "Car drivers hate us. Why? It must be because some of us break the rules...".
It's complete rubbish.
You want to be liked? Stop holding them up once that happens they'll stop looking for reasons to hate us because we'll simply slip under their radar.
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