The War on Britain's Roads

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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keyboardmonkey
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by keyboardmonkey »

I thought it was a well-balanced programme, personally. But the BBC didn't commission a programme to promote cycling. If you want that you'll have to look elsewhere. Here for instance, shown two days ago on regional BBC, starting at 19 minutes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 3_12_2012/
ukdodger
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by ukdodger »

Watching it I feel scared about riding for the first time in my life. So many selfish aggressive motorists & so many selfish and stupid cyclists making it bad for all of us. If it were up to me the way I'd deal with the RLJers is to trash their bikes. Sooner or later they'll slap plates on all of us just to catch them.
snibgo
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by snibgo »

The tone and content were very close to the incessant cops-chase-crazy-drivers TV shows. I don't suppose those shows discourage people from driving, and I doubt if this one will discourage people who already cycle from cycling.

Would it put people off cycling? Yes. It almost seemed designed to do exactly that, as well as providing ammunition for cyclist-hating motorists and motorist-hating cyclists. It deplored a war while enflaming it.
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Simon L6
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by Simon L6 »

I think Pete's and Snigbo's assessments are pretty fair, in that the programme was clearly not going to encourage anybody to ride a bike, but, then again, that wasn't the intention. It's a suburban take on urban life, and, just as it would have been if the subject were public transport, it was a supposedly improving message from rather isolated folk getting upset about something they know little about. But....to repeat - it's telly. That's all it is. That's all it was ever going to be. It's a musty elderly gent's club grumbling about the modern world. To compare it with something meaningful, like a bike ride, is to compare a matchbox full of grime with a thousand tonnes of sunshine.

If the CTC wants to get hold of the medium and use the power of moving images in a worthwhile way then they should look beyond schedule fillers. Danny McAllister reaches audiences that mainstream telly doesn't touch, and it reaches them in a condensed, immediate way. Mainstream telly audiences are in decline, and the future lies in shorter, more compelling footage distributed by Facebook and affinity groups. That last night's programme was dominated by headcam footage says it all. This.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj6ho1-G6tw has had 24 million views. I doubt 'The War on Britain's Roads' got more than a tenth of that.

I sent this to the CTC yesterday. http://www.toast.co.uk/content/christma ... ster+Group You'll laugh at it, and you're entitled to laugh at it, but the virtue of it is that it's cheap, it's direct, and it's there to make a point. And, while I'm sure that most of you have no interest in buying faux fisherman's jumpers, you can, I hope, see how it 'builds the brand'. Our brand is cycling, and, more specifically, the CTC. If we think that moving images can build it, this is the kind of thing we need to look at.

My final thought is this. Each year I get e-mails from half a dozen people that run along the lines of 'your rides have changed my life'. Will last night's effort change anybody's life? You know the answer to that - it's not even chip papers. The simple truth is that we do something that is healthful, useful and joyful, and that, unlike 'The War on Britain's Roads' will endure. We can be sure of ourselves and confident of a better, brighter day.
tonythompson
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by tonythompson »

I thought that CyclinGaz was out to cause incidents when there are enough real ones around. There were many cyclist going about quite safely and working with the motorists in difficult situations. Whereas CG seemed not to be willing to give anything and was riding legally but on the edge and seemed to be willing motorists to come close. Maybe I'm wrong but he left me feeling that I wanted to punch him so no wonder he gets into so many scrapes. I have never in 65 years ever hit anyone or particularly wanted to. I don't feel he has helped us at all.

Lets face it the roads in the main are not all that suitable for the traffic and volume of traffic that use them and until that is sorted this situation will not change and we will continue to be at danger from impatient drivers.

One more point and that is if CG and others used a mirror I'm sure they could avoid some of the incidents - better to be safe from dangerous drivers than in the right and hurt.

That out of the way I shall go and have a nice long ride. Bye.
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chazza
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by chazza »

Simon L6 wrote:I think Pete's and Snigbo's assessments are pretty fair. The programme is clearly not going to encourage anybody to ride a bike, nor was it intended to. It's a suburban take on urban life, and, just as it would have been if the subject were public transport, it was a supposedly improving message from rather isolated folk getting upset about something they know little about. But....to repeat - it's telly. That's all it is. That's all it was ever going to be.
Actually the reaction here was that the programme would actively discourage people from riding. The central dishonesty used to highlight the "war" will also continue to re-inforce negative attitudes to cyclists. That means drivers take less care, police and prosecutors tend to blame the cyclist victim in cases of death or serious injury, juries acquit killer drivers.
This week 2 young guys from east London died because of road racing, six of their friends were seriously injured, last week two Londoners were killed by hit and run car drivers. This is serious stuff. In the 12 years since Cynthia Barlow's daughter was killed by a lorry her campaigning has changed the way the transport industry is managed and drivers are trained. It is a long game, changing the behaviour of the way people drive and cycle. Last night's programme will undo some of that. By "crossing the line" and choosing sensationalism over truth there has already been an impact. Several cyclist hating articles have appeared in the press. My aunty tells me that LBC radio have had hours of anti cyclist ranting. etc etc.
Those of us whose lives have been enriched by discovering cycling have a right to be disappointed in Argonon/Leopard films. If they had put the Brunelle video in an honest context we couldn't complain, we wouldn't feel that last night's film had increased the risk out there, it has definitely increased the unnecessary anxiety of our family members.
Thanks for the toast, it is just what I need a this time of the morning.
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Simon L6
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by Simon L6 »

well, Chazza, it is an odd thing, isn't it? Cycle 'campaigners' ramble on about this and that junction, or how we should 'go Dutch', tell us that Britain's roads are somehow fundamentally unsuited for bikes and that death is all around us, and then they complain when they think a television programme creates a similar impression. Thirdcrank mentioned the CTC's conversion to segregation, and, while it's all too painful to discuss, and while I accept the Campaigns staff had it forced on them by a caucus within the membership, it ill-behoves the CTC to bemoan a programme sensationalising conflict between motor vehicles and cyclists when that same organisation is campaigning for cyclists to be given separate provision.

I'm reminded of that awful Walthamstow person who routinely says that Cycling Superhighways Are Wrong. Then again, I see anything up to 45 cyclists waiting at a single red light on CS7 and wonder what he knows that they don't.

The Lucas Brunelle footage was completely inappropriate for the programme, but, if I'm honest, I enjoy watching it from time to time, if only because it relieves the tedium induced by people telling me that we're dooooomed and it's all going to end in tears.
reohn2
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by reohn2 »

661-Pete wrote:Well, it's gone out on air. I followed the advice to 'wait and see'.

Depressing. As depressing as the news broadcast that followed it. And deplorable. Exactly what I didn't want to see.

Who said it 'wasn't going to be as bad as the trailer'? It came across as exactly like the trailer. Period.

Nothing, repeat nothing, at all positive to say about cycling, the benefits of cycling, the enjoyment of cycling. Just a lot of macho attitudes getting in the way of one another.

So the alleycat stuff went out without any accreditation, just as was threatened, just as if it was some more amateur helmet cam stuff. Typical.............
Road rage incidents. Plenty of them. Repeated over and over again, to multiply up the numbers and 'thrill' the viewers some more...............

TV is all about: cruel and merciless editing to suit the profits and ratings, not the facts.

So: thinking about what this programme's impact might be. Consider:
If I were a non-cyclist, would watching this programme make me think about taking it up? NO.
If I were a long-term cyclist, but dithering about giving it up because I can't cope with the traffic any more. Would this programme spur me to keep at it? NO.
If I were a novice cyclist, not sure whether it's the thing for me. Would this programme decide me to carry on? NO.
If I were an experienced and comfortable cyclist, would this programme give me a good warm feel-good feeling inside? NO.

0/10 to Leopard, I'm afraid..............


Spot on IMHO
I can't see what good it served and certainly didn't do anything for regular cyclists lot,quite depressing.
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Geriatrix
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by Geriatrix »

tonythompson wrote:I thought that CyclinGaz was out to cause incidents when there are enough real ones around.


CycleGaz is doing no more than going about his daily business. You don't have to seek these things out, they happen of their own accord. The fact that the program gives the impression that CycleGaz seeks out incidences illustrates one of the flaws of the program. That is, that it failed to educate. CycleGaz adopts the road positioning practices recommended by John Franklin, and is what would be taught by the DfT's own Bikeability training and the program failed to convey that point. The viewer was left none the wiser at the end of the program and it was left purely up to their own subjectivity as to who was right & who was wrong.

The confrontation between CycleGaz and the cab driver was a good example. The cab driver's overtake which prompted the confrontation did not conform to HW code guidance. At no point does the program point this out. Nor does it point out that it's a frightening experience to be overtaken with inches to spare when you don't have protective shell around you. There are many people who think that the cabbie was justified in his reaction, rendering the HW code as much value as the recommendation to eat five fruit & veg a day.

The program was damaging on so many levels, and it put cycling in reverse.

(edited for spellig)
Last edited by Geriatrix on 6 Dec 2012, 9:35am, edited 2 times in total.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
Geriatrix
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by Geriatrix »

661-Pete wrote:Well, it's gone out on air. I followed the advice to 'wait and see'.

Depressing.
.
.
.
This programme was supposed to inform the viewers. In that it has failed.

+1
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman
reohn2
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by reohn2 »

hatless wrote:I have to disagree with you, 661-pete. There was quite a bit about the pleasure of cycling. Magnatom talked about cycling being a form of spirituality for him, with shots of a country lane as he spoke. The wonderful mother said how cycling to work every day had made her daughter happy. The London to Dover and back guys had clearly set out to have a great trip, hearty breakfasts and a good time together.

The clips they emphasised were the horrifying ones, the punch and the terrifying artic on the roundabout - not sensational, I don't think, but shocking and rightly so.

The conclusion, in so far as there was one, was sober and about the importance of people, fragile people who live and die, and care and hurt......


IMHO I think you and many on here aren't seeing it from outside the cyclists box(if that's not an oxymoron),it's how people who don't cycle will see cycling and cyclists as a result that matters,IMO it's done nothing for that impression.
The positive bits were far outweighed by the negatives.
Last edited by reohn2 on 6 Dec 2012, 9:33am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mark1978
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by Mark1978 »

I watched it with my wife and I thought at the end she would just say "Right; you're never cycling again!"
Mark1978
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by Mark1978 »

One of the main points seemed to be cyclists touching motorists vehicles and them freaking out about it. The point was repeated "If I can touch you; you are too close", with the usual retorts of - nonsense, I didn't hit you did I?
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661-Pete
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by 661-Pete »

With regard to the outbursts of 'strong language' - well that does tend to grab viewers' attention I'm afraid. Human nature. I try to avoid actual swearing at other road users, but I have slipped up on occasion - which I regret. It ain't big and it ain't clever.

I'm not talking about the involuntary expletives which I certainly uttered on coming into contact with tarmac recently, and which were (hopefully) overheard by no-one but a strip of black tarmac. Can't really help that. I was once told by an ex-colleague who happened to be a keen mountaineer, the following bit of information (which may be apocryphal). Apparently, the last words uttered by a climber, on realising he's lost his grip and is about to plummet 10,000 feet to oblivion, are not "Aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh!" as Hollywood would have us believe. They are more likely to be "Oh - f***!!!!!!"

Better - in my opinion - upon being cut up, is to call out the offending registration number, loud and clear, with a hint of sarcasm - even though I don't have a cam. I might yell "Nice driving there, XY99ABC!" or whatever. Hoping they'll hear. Something to shake them up a bit without offending. I really ought to get into the habit of using the phoneticised alphabet ("Alpha" "Bravo" etc.) like the cops do. That would certainly put the willies up some.
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kwackers
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Re: The War on Britain's Roads

Post by kwackers »

Geriatrix wrote:The confrontation between CycleGaz and the cab driver was a good example. The cab driver's overtake which prompted the confrontation did not conform to HW code guidance. At no point does the program point this out. Nor does it point out that it's a frightening experience to be overtaken with inches to spare when you don't have protective shell around you. There are many people who think that the cabbie was justified in his reaction, rendering the HW code as much value as the recommendation to eat five fruit & veg a day.

The cabbie thing was the most disappointing bit. The guy's obviously an idiot but worse his attitude is that of the 5% of motorists out there who are genuinely and vindictively dangerous.
I would have like to see an 'expert' opinion on his manoeuvre to inform viewers rather than letting them make up their own mind.
The only good things I can say is that the only non-cyclist I know who saw it thought he was well out of order and hopefully his new found 'fame' will come back to haunt him. :wink:
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