Tragic news

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
diapason0
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Joined: 11 Aug 2011, 9:14pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by diapason0 »

The previous posts are quite right to reflect on the awful loss which two families have suffered. None of us can begin to imagine how they are feeling unless we have suffered a similar loss. Nobody has sought to detract from this; the comments about the wording of the news report simply reflects our concern that neither party is, by implication, 'blamed' whilst the facts are not clearly known. The only thing we know for certain is that it was a tragic accident. I am posting a link to an updated BBC Derby report appealing for help in identifying the cyclist. I do not intend to appear insensitive (and believe me, I am deeply shocked by this terrible accident) if I note that the journalist refers to him 'driving' his bike - another mistake by an uninformed journalist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de ... e-15068259
snibgo
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Re: Tragic news

Post by snibgo »

The cyclist has now been identified.

My condolences to all concerned.
Tonyf33
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Re: Tragic news

Post by Tonyf33 »

The problem is clear that shoddy journalism and often a negative stance from news editors towards cyclists (even if unintended) make incidents like this always seem to be the fault of the cyclists using phrases like "who was in collision with" or "collided with".

Whilst apportioning blame when two people have tragically lost their lives may seem a trifle crass, the fact of the matter is when blame is apportioned by the police (or not as the case may be) from the investigation, innocent parties have had their lives taken due to the dangerous actions of another and to boot have had their name besmirched as the instigator of the crash in the first instance.

For a media outlet to clearly imply that it was the fault of one of the victims without any shred of evidence IS offensive AND has/had far deeper implications and detrimental effects particularly in the case of cyclists.

It is sad and terrible news, however if it is proved (& from initial eye witnesses it may not take long) that the inaction of one has killed another then that is not something that can be swept under the carpet for the sake of feelings for one party. I'm sure the family of the cyclist would be horrified by the report implying that their son/dad/brother/uncle was to blame when it initially appears not be the case at all.
I'm surprised no-one has taken it to the Media complaints comission or OfCom to stop this very type of thing from happening. I may well ping something off in any case.
peter99
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Joined: 5 Sep 2010, 5:46pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by peter99 »

Come and ride with me one Sunday morning on the roads around Squires cafe near Sherburn with 1100's blasting round bends at 80 mph+ whilst we are doing 20mph ish, watching them come at us and tell me you don't sh1t yourself sometimes.

I write this because I don't want my family and friends to be in the same position of Devastated 36 or her friends / family.
Hopefully I wouldn't know anything about it if I was hit.

I truely feel for you D36 and all your family / friends and those of the motorcycle rider, I truely do.

But the above posts have to be aired and said. What chance has a licra clad, polystirene helmet wearing 25mph cyclist against a combind collision speed of 100mph plus with a leather suited with hard joint protection, hard helmeted biker with metal bits sticking out from the machine?

I say again I am not being argumentative. I am just sick and tired of being put in the same position as the cyclist who died whilst I am cycling 'round my way'. Yesterday I came home after a 55 miler near there.
unfortunately neither the biker or cyclist did in this case.

The real tradgedy now is D36 and everyone she knows left to feel the pain and loss from this. It is all so needless and avoidable but it will never stop as long as we boys have testosterone will it?

Please all drive / bike carefully every time.
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meic
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Re: Tragic news

Post by meic »

Or come with me up the hill outside my door with lorries overtaking on blind bends at not much greater speed than I am doing and tell me that you dont get scared when they come back over to the left before getting past you.
The regular cars passing so close that you can see the feet of the person in the passenger seat.

If somebody is going out for thrills on the road I much prefer they do it on a motorbike than in a car.

As an ex-dispatch rider I have done some pretty poor riding of motorbikes in my time but my excesses were controlled by my vulnerability. Normally you expect to come off much worse than anything that you hit. So motorcyclists on the whole do not take the same chances of having a collision that people in boxes do.
Yma o Hyd
peter99
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Re: Tragic news

Post by peter99 »

Meic, IMHO that is a very poor argument in view of this thread.
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meic
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Re: Tragic news

Post by meic »

I take your point but I think that is a mistake to see it that way.

All the time road users (especially cyclists) are put at risk by other road users and frequently killed or injured by them.
THIS case is unusual in that it was caused by a motorcyclist.

as most of the deaths of vulnerable road users are caused by people driving vehicles other than motorcycles, it is wrong to call for special action against motorcyclists.

On a daily basis I am subject to dangerous driving incidents but very rarely by motorcyclists.
In this case the motorcyclist has paid the full penalty for his actions. I can think of a similar case recently in East England where a car driver killed a cyclist in the same way and not only was he released but he was given his licence back!!!!
Yma o Hyd
eileithyia
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Re: Tragic news

Post by eileithyia »

Condolences to family & friends of the victim.

Let us take this as an example to us all to ensure that we carry ID when we go out there, and remember we have people awaiting our return who may need to be informed.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
peter99
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Joined: 5 Sep 2010, 5:46pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by peter99 »

Fair points.

I think the point I am making is only occasionally will a car be near it's limit with the rider in the area I refer to, where as a rough guess something like 30% (non scientific :wink: ) of bikers are trusting in God so to speak.

Or put another way, how often do the Police or councils spend to put banners up to make car drivers and truck drivers think about their driving, compared to the "to die for" et al signs / banners on many country roads known for biker problems?
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meic
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Re: Tragic news

Post by meic »

I think of it as the dye in the water effect.

If you have 5% of road users who are speed freaks, they can take to a car or a motorcycle. Then they go out and kill somebody with the former or themselves with the latter.
As 90% of the other people are in cars, the effect of the 5% who do the bad driving is hidden by the fact that the majority behave.
If they do it on a motorcycle and kill themselves, it shows up in the statistics in a striking way. Action is then taken to discourage motorcycling and the speed freaks move over to cars where their killing of others is drowned out by the masses.
Yet the overall death toll of third parties rises.

There are also some roads where these people like to play their games, they could be (and are) dispersed by targeted action but that just makes them move on to other roads.

There are some traffic rules that could be introduced to curb these motorcyclists, like enforcement of speed limits, preventing groups of vehicles by having a compulsory distance between vehicles and banning multiple overtakes or overtakes within a line of traffic.
If these same measures were extended to ALL (motorised :wink: ) vehicles the death toll on the roads would plummet.
Yma o Hyd
gilesjuk
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Re: Tragic news

Post by gilesjuk »

In my experience it is more like 50:50 around here. Half of them are speed freaks.

All the TV adverts and safety campaigns seem to focus on car drivers seeing bikes. But if a bike is doing 50 in a 30 then in some cases you can look, see a clear road and then pull out only for a bike to come zooming around the corner.

Also I've had bikes hovering around the back of the car near to the middle of the road. Not the best place to be really is it.
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meic
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Re: Tragic news

Post by meic »

Certainly not a good place to be but if the, not hard to foresee, collision happens it wont hurt you at all. 8)
They will hopefully learn from their mistake.

Unfortunately they probably learnt that position when driving a white van.
Which if it is behind a motorcyclist (annoyingly doing less than 50mph in a 30 zone) is a definite threat to life and limb.
Yma o Hyd
Tonyf33
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Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: Tragic news

Post by Tonyf33 »

And the beeb do exactly the same thing again with their "in collision with" routine :twisted: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-no ... e-15072803

I haven't received a response from the BBC either, though pleased to see they have rehashed the report.
Michael R
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Joined: 9 Jul 2008, 10:40pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by Michael R »

I live on the Blackpool- Kirkby Lonsdale race track aka a road for all traffic. We have to put up with excessive speed and noise from subhuman motorcyclists , who crash at regular intervals.

Perhaps there should be a limit on size and power of motorbikes and they should be stopped more often.
tatanab
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Re: Tragic news

Post by tatanab »

Michael R wrote:Perhaps there should be a limit on size and power of motorbikes and they should be stopped more often.

There is/was a voluntary limit introduced by manufacturers of low 100s horsepower - sorry but I cannot recall the number. How is it there is no such limit (even for learners) in the motor car world?

Do not impose restrictions on motorcyclists just because of the antics of a relatively few fair weather riders. We have them in the cycling world too.
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