Tragic news

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Complained (I think) requesting a response and suggesting use of the passive voice...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
karlt
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Joined: 15 Jul 2011, 2:07pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by karlt »

Poor response from Beeb:

Many thanks for your email.

No blame was or ever is intended to be implied by our use of the word collided, 'Was in a collision' with is a slightly clumsier phrase which we tend to avoid.

Many thanks,




Haven't we had previous cases where the Beeb has agreed with us, changed wording and promised to be good in the future?
alicej
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Re: Tragic news

Post by alicej »

They do seem to have changed the wording, it now reads "The cyclist was on the A621 from Sheffield to Baslow near Car Top when he and a motorcyclist going in the opposite direction collided." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de ... e-15057452

I've not had a reply to my complaint though.
karlt
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Re: Tragic news

Post by karlt »

peter99 wrote:But saying a cycle collided with a motorcyclist isn't neutral, it infers the cyclist did the colliding.


No, you infer it. The wording implies it.

This has been a public service announcement.
karlt
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Re: Tragic news

Post by karlt »

alicej wrote:They do seem to have changed the wording, it now reads "The cyclist was on the A621 from Sheffield to Baslow near Car Top when he and a motorcyclist going in the opposite direction collided." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de ... e-15057452

I've not had a reply to my complaint though.


Interesting. Looks like a "we don't really admit that we worded this wrong but we've changed it anyway."

Turning to the tragic incident itself, how do we "control" motorcyclists, as has been alluded to above? This sort of riding is already illegal; it happens out in rural areas where with the best will in the world it's never going to be crawling with rozzers. IME, the acceptability of speeding is even more of a problem amongst a certain breed of biker than it is amongst motorists in general, and any of us who enjoy shooting down a clear hill at 40mph+ can probably understand exactly why. That speeding recreational motorcyclists have been a bugbear and frequently a lethal menace for decades strongly implies that there's not a lot anyone's ever been able to do about it. I don't believe that heavier penalties will necessarily make any difference, because the offenders are pretty sure that (a) they'll get away with the manoeuvre (because if they don't they have a pretty good chance of ending up dead) and (b) they won't get caught because they don't do it in front of a patrol car. It's like tailgaiting, careless lane switching, close overtaking and all the rest - 90% of the time the driver is lucky; he then starts to assume that he'll be lucky 100% of the time.
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meic
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Re: Tragic news

Post by meic »

I dont see any point in targeting motorcyclists.

Normally the danger to road users is from the larger vehicles.

Quote
"His helmet passed between my shoulder and right ear. I was nowhere near the centreline. I can still remember the "CRACK!" as it missed me by inches. That is one of many, and I don't claim to have seen them all, by a very long way."

How many times have we had cars do the samething or actually hit the cyclist even?

Generally the motorcyclists are much less of a problem because they are narrow enough to get through when cars are not yet neither intends to slow down.
The other big point which controls motorcyclists' behaviour is the fact that they TOO are vulnerable. I would much rather have boy-racers out on motorcycles than in their cars.

If there is a hierarchy of threats to the safety of road users of all types, I would put motorcyclists pretty near the bottom.
As has been said, they mostly kill themselves.

I am all for a bit of removing dangerous and speeding drivers/riders though of all types.
Many of the motorcyclists do it themselves without help from the Police.
Yma o Hyd
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by [XAP]Bob »

They've just about lifted the text I suggested - left in a few more words about direction of the cyclist in particular...

Which could of course have been coincidence...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
johncharles
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Joined: 15 Jan 2009, 10:23am

Re: Tragic news

Post by johncharles »

I find it more nauseating that people on here are moaning about the petty differences in the wording of an accident where 2 people have died than actually thinking about the victims and their families.

How many have actually said thieir condolences!!
karlt
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Re: Tragic news

Post by karlt »

johncharles wrote:I find it more nauseating that people on here are moaning about the petty differences in the wording of an accident where 2 people have died than actually thinking about the victims and their families.

How many have actually said thieir condolences!!


In various ways, rather a lot, on the first page.

Thoughts about the course of the thread had crossed my mind, especially since I first drew attention to the BBC coverage. But then I thought that besides "That sucks" and thoughts for the families involved, what's more to say? People on here are prickly about this; there's nothing we can do or say for the victims here; it's natural enough that attention is turned to the way it's reported. It may be petty; it may not be, but a lot of people have noticed a pattern in these news reports that it's always the cyclist who apparently collided with whatever killed or maimed them. It angers them. They express it; this is a web forum - it goes how it goes.

If we weren't thinking about the victims of events like this, we wouldn't give a flying you-know-what how it was reported.

Out of interesting, "more nauseating" than what?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Tragic news

Post by [XAP]Bob »

johncharles wrote:I find it more nauseating that people on here are moaning about the petty differences in the wording of an accident where 2 people have died than actually thinking about the victims and their families.

How many have actually said thieir condolences!!


I'm not convinced we should be calling it an accident just yet.
Yes - our thoughts are with the affected families, but there is an important point of public perception. The media (whether we like it or not) shape our views in myriad subtle and not so subtle ways.

In general I subscribe to the thought process: "Never ascribe to malice what can be readily explained by incompetence"

Although the journalism is probably incompetent rather than malicious the effect on public perception is the same...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Edwards
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Location: Birmingham

Re: Tragic news

Post by Edwards »

I am wondering if the relatives of both the dead really care about the wording or any of the "Public Service Announcements" that have been said.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
karlt
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Joined: 15 Jul 2011, 2:07pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by karlt »

Edwards wrote:I am wondering if the relatives of both the dead really care about the wording or any of the "Public Service Announcements" that have been said.


Probably not. I wouldn't. Point?
LANDSURFER74

Re: Tragic news

Post by LANDSURFER74 »

I know the road well.
On my bicycle , on my motor bike.
ZZR 1100 once upon a time, MZ 150 now.
Holdsworth / Campag race bike, old 80's steel framed hybrid now.

Such a loss is tragedy.
Tragedy does not appoint blame, point the finger, or stand on a soap box to beat its chest and cry for action.
Two husbands, boyfriends, lovers, uncles, dads lost....

Such a loss is a tragedy...


i suppose better wipe my eyes before the kids get in ...
Edwards
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Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 10:09pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: Tragic news

Post by Edwards »

LANDSURFER74 wrote:Such a loss is tragedy.Tragedy does not appoint blame, point the finger, or stand on a soap box to beat its chest and cry for action. Two husbands, boyfriends, lovers, uncles, dads lost....Such a loss is a tragedy...


Well said
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
Devastated36
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Joined: 27 Sep 2011, 5:00pm

Re: Tragic news

Post by Devastated36 »

I came across the post after receiving the most dreadful phone call on sunday night from my bestfriend to say her boyfriend had been killed, yes he was the motor bike rider.
I felt I had to join just to say that at the end of the day two men have lost their lives, and many others lives have been ripped apart due to this tragic event.
Please put everything aside, blame, bikers, cyclists at the end of the day people have lost loved ones.

Thank you
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