Tragic news

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meic
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Re: Tragic news

Post by meic »

I remember the 100HP limit coming in in the 1980s.

Which was respected by BMW when they bought out their K100.
However it was pretty much forgotten soon afterwards.

You can get yourself into more than enough trouble with 90HP and I would be surprised if the motorcyclist in question was even using 90HP at the time of his mistake.
Yma o Hyd
thirdcrank
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Re: Tragic news

Post by thirdcrank »

meic wrote: ... at the time of his mistake.
You are an undercover Mr Loophole and I claim my £5.

Obviously, I know nothing of the background to this collision, other than what's on here, but speaking generally, that analysis is behind much of the problem with the present system. Nothing much is done unless there's a collision and then there's rarely any evidence that it wasn't caused by a single mistake.
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meic
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Re: Tragic news

Post by meic »

Likewise, all I am saying is based on the third hand stories of a few eye-witnesses.

I used the term mistake because I did not wish to call it an accident.

I was imagining that the mistake which he made was to attempt to pass a line of moving traffic when the other side of the road was not empty.
Whether he couldnt see the cyclist, failed to see a visible cyclist or saw the cyclist and proceeded any way that would to my mind be a mistake AND one that should be considered criminal.

Again this may well NOT apply to this particular motorcyclist but the scenario ( normally without a cyclist's death) is common enough from ALL types of motor vehicle users.
Yma o Hyd
thirdcrank
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Re: Tragic news

Post by thirdcrank »

meic wrote: ... Again this may well NOT apply to this particular motorcyclist but the scenario ( normally without a cyclist's death) is common enough from ALL types of motor vehicle users.
I'm sure all road users make mistakes, but there are certain factors - especially inappropriate speed - which aggravate their effects and give others less opportunity to to take avoiding action. The type of vehicle is also likely to have an influence on a person's willingness to take risks and this is particularly so when they chose it. Although motorcyclists are extremely vulnerable in collisions, the ability to out-accelerate anything on four wheels must often have an influence on conduct. Not to mention "The leader of the pack" sysndrome.
pinarello_fan
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Re: Tragic news

Post by pinarello_fan »

tatanab wrote:
Michael R wrote:Perhaps there should be a limit on size and power of motorbikes and they should be stopped more often.

There is/was a voluntary limit introduced by manufacturers of low 100s horsepower - sorry but I cannot recall the number. How is it there is no such limit (even for learners) in the motor car world?
The voluntary limit used to be 125bhp in the nineties, but I think that when Kawasaki first introduced the ZZR1100 it broke the limit and then all the manufacturers followed suit. There's a limit on learners who don't do a Direct Access course to 33bhp for the first 2 years I think, but that's about it.

The problem with bikes is that the vast majority of sportbike riders ride as if the road is a racetrack. They are going too fast for the road conditions and cannot react fast enough to any change (and other road users cannot react quickly enough due to the innappropriate speed of the bikers). Couple that with flagrant disregard for the law (i.e. speeding, race exhausts, small number plates, black/iridium visors etc) and they are more of a problem than other traffic in general. And I say all this as 10 years ago, I used to be one of them until one day I sat back and realised that I couldn't continue like that.

I think it's more of a problem now that it used to be because of the lack of dedicated traffic police now to 'dissuade' bikers from behaving so irresponsibly.

That is not to say that all road users are perfect (I've lost count of the number of times I've been out on cycle club runs and seen 3/4 abreast, jumping lights, scaring pedestrians at crossings due to people not willing to slow down etc)
Tonyf33
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Re: Tragic news

Post by Tonyf33 »

Apparently it is standard practise to use the phrase "Was in collision with" or "collided with" as apparently from a legal POV this is acceptable. I've actually been in contact with an editor of a local newspaper who reported the death of a cyclist yesterday in Nottingham as "Mr such & such was in collision with a lorry". The editor has responded immediately, explaining their stance and has agreed that a more neutral approach to these reports could be used to avoid any ambiguity and that they will in future. :D :D

I think if we can all at least approach our local newspaper editors to try to pursuade them to change we may have more joy at at least putting some balance on these sad affairs. I'm going to right a letter to the PCC and see what can be done to get this changed. I wonder if the CTC could/should follow up on this or whom do I contact within ctc to give this some backing?
johncharles
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Re: Tragic news

Post by johncharles »

There is too much pedantry about things like this when the vast majority don't even notice how the article has been written.

Thats what I expect though. :roll:
Mike Sales
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Re: Tragic news

Post by Mike Sales »

johncharles wrote:There is too much pedantry about things like this when the vast majority don't even notice how the article has been written.

Thats what I expect though. :roll:

Would you notice the difference between,

"The man collided with the wall."

and

"The wall collided with the man."?
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
peter99
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Re: Tragic news

Post by peter99 »

So sorry the family & friends of the victim. I'm also sure the motocyclists family are devastated he apparently killed an innocent man and will be thinking them too.

Nothing can be said here to make them feel better so soon after the crash. Please take courage that there is life beyond this huge devastation. Time is needed but that won't help just now

Peter
johncharles
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Re: Tragic news

Post by johncharles »

Mike Sales wrote:
johncharles wrote:There is too much pedantry about things like this when the vast majority don't even notice how the article has been written.

Thats what I expect though. :roll:

Would you notice the difference between,

"The man collided with the wall."

and

"The wall collided with the man."?


Thats the sort of analogy I would expect on here.
Mike Sales
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Re: Tragic news

Post by Mike Sales »

johncharles wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
johncharles wrote:There is too much pedantry about things like this when the vast majority don't even notice how the article has been written.

Thats what I expect though. :roll:

Would you notice the difference between,

"The man collided with the wall."

and

"The wall collided with the man."?


Thats the sort of analogy I would expect on here.


Not an analogy, just as your comment is not an answer to my question. What you expect on here is neither here nor there.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Tonyf33
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: Tragic news

Post by Tonyf33 »

johncharles wrote:There is too much pedantry about things like this when the vast majority don't even notice how the article has been written.

Thats what I expect though. :roll:

So in your humble opinion it doesn't matter that the wording in an article is inaccurate & changes the whole scenario as to who was at fault in a case were the deaths of two human beings have occured? That's your opinion and are free to express it, you are wrong but no-one is stopping you from expressing that of course. However you then start accusing forumers of being pedants because they've pointed out the errors, well i don't think that is called for & is out of order, "vast majority", really? Please show workings out, or am I being a pedant? :roll:

I'm sure the family/friends of any person/cyclist/motorist (wrongly) accused of 'colliding with' and causing the death of others (never mind themselves) will be more than happy to point out the error of your opinion... In my opinion of course :!:
eileithyia
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Re: Tragic news

Post by eileithyia »

peter99 wrote:So sorry the family & friends of the victim. I'm also sure the motocyclists family are devastated he apparently killed an innocent man and will be thinking them too.

Nothing can be said here to make them feel better so soon after the crash. Please take courage that there is life beyond this huge devastation. Time is needed but that won't help just now.

Peter


My understanding is 2 motorcyclists were involved, travelling side by side they took a left hand bend very wide hitting the cyclist, the 2nd motorcyclist is injured.

Obviously it is very raw for family & friends of the victim.
Perhaps if we want to discuss/argue the merits of motorbike speed we start another thread and leave this one for the direct consequences of the tragedy.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
johncharles
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Re: Tragic news

Post by johncharles »

Would you notice the difference between,

"The man collided with the wall."

and

"The wall collided with the man."?[/quote]



Not an analogy, just as your comment is not an answer to my question. What you expect on here is neither here nor there.[/quote][/quote]

Just the reply I expected,

The question you put is not relevant anyway and bears no relation to the report of the tragic incident.
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Si
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Re: Tragic news

Post by Si »

All: it is reasonable to discuss how these incidents are reported, but the tone that this thread is taking makes it sound as though this sad incident is now being used as a points scoring vehicle. Please remember that the root of this thread is the tragic death of two people - please be civil and polite to other contributes to the thread, and use reasoned argument rather than throw-away phrases of disdain. Thank you for your cooperation.
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