Afghan Hero Killed on A338

[MikewsMITH2]

I noticed this headline whilst walking through the supermarket this morning. It appears the state of our roads is becoming lethal without IEDs. What a tragedy...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2912830/Afghan-hero-Captain-Jonathan-Allen-killed-by-pothole-on-the-A338.html

[cjchambers]

I agree - it's bad news, always bad news. Just down the road from me - I know it shouldn't really make a difference, but when something like this happens close to home it does seem to have more of a personal impact.

However, I'm uneasy about the idea that it was the pothole that killed him. The newspaper seem to have decided that for themselves.

[meic]

A very narrow road, double white lines, a lorry overtaking.
Does anyone seriously believe an army combat officer was riding his bike at less than 10mph??
The car on the other side of the road is almost filling the lane, lorries are wider.
From my experience the pothole is not to blame at all but at least the Police can find witnesses that the pothole was there.

[stoobs]

A very narrow road, double white lines, a lorry overtaking.
Does anyone seriously believe an army combat officer was riding his bike at less than 10mph??
The car on the other side of the road is almost filling the lane, lorries are wider.
From my experience the pothole is not to blame at all but at least the Police can find witnesses that the pothole was there.

+1

You beat me to it. Mind you, I was overtaken on double whites by a policewoman the other day, so what's to be done? Also, isn't the new patching in the photo a good witness to what was there before - a classic admission as I believe happened in the infamous Mick F "offing", although they deny it afterwards.

[kwackers]

I have to move out towards the middle of the road cycling past Speke airport due to potholes.
Doesn't stop the idiot overtaking too close to 'prove a point' or giving it the horn.

Drivers are idiots. At the very least some sort of public information campaign is needed.

[eileithyia]

From the picture it is difficult to know why it is a solid white line. It appears[i] to be a straight road from the camera angle.

I would hesitate to say the pothole caused the death, though it is probably a [i]contributary factor. If it was not there then the cyclist would not have had to move further out into the road. Personally I think I would have wary that a lorry approaching from behind (or any vehicle) might not appreciate the presence of the pothole and I would be wary of moving out on a narrow road, in the dark in front of lorry.

Regretfully too many of our drivers do not appreciate the difficulties of riding on pothole infested roads, or may not be able to see the pothole themselves; dark/water filled or because the cyclist in front "masks" the hazard.
This is not helped that any media programmes regarding potholes have mainly commented on the effects of potholes on motorists and their cars and not on more vulnerable groups; cyclists and motorcyclists.

Obviously there are other issues involved, speed of lorry, should he have even been overtaking at that stage of the road etc.
Unfortunately it may take a tragic accident such as this to highlight that other road users are equally, if not more so affected by potholes.

[meic]

We have just had a thread arguing about what exactly the highway code means in its advice about passing cyclists.
Motorists routinely get away with totally ignoring it. Most times nothing happens, on this occasion something did happen.
To my mind the lorry driver is proven guilty purely by a tape measure.
He could not pass a cyclist legally at that location (unless you believe our Fusiliers dawdle on their bikes). Then he chose to do an illegal overtake. If he had done that cautiously it would have only caused an accident if the cyclist had himself crossed the double white lines.
It is most likely that the lorry was dangerously "squeezing" past the cyclist, it happens to me daily.
Because lorries do do this sort of dangerous manouveur on a daily basis, it has become common practice and the lorry driver will probably be excused for the results.

[hubgearfreak]

To my mind the lorry driver is proven guilty purely by a tape measure.

i agree. however, if the sun has to choose between blaming local authorities or the motorist, it's no surpeise that they chose the headline they did

[Chris_C]

At the very least some sort of public information campaign is needed.

I totally agree with this. The public information campaign for motorists needs to have one simple message: treat every bike like a car. If it is in front of you (even if it is in the secondary riding position) you should keep behind it unless it is safe to overtake it *in the next lane*

[EdinburghFixed]

The pothole makes it newsworthy, although it's hard to believe they actually write that the pothole was responsible for his death, when it would appear from their own description that he was killed by a lorry driver who piloted an HGV over him. Ah well...

[Braveheart]

At the very least some sort of public information campaign is needed.

I totally agree with this. The public information campaign for motorists needs to have one simple message: treat every bike like a car. If it is in front of you (even if it is in the secondary riding position) you should keep behind it unless it is safe to overtake it *in the next lane*

On the issue of treating every bike like a car, it is really down to education. My former employer, fed up with the rising cost of fleet insurance, sent every company car driver on a "driving awareness" course. Being a cyclist, it was just common practice and common sense to me, but many of my collegues saw it differently. We were also encouraged to give parked cars, on the road or half on the pavement as much room as was techincally possible in case a door was opened as we passed. Again, common sense to a cyclist, but others struggled " if they lose a door, its their fault mentaility", not thinking that a person may be attached to the opening door.

Given ( at the time ) it cost about £200 per head for a 1/2 day course, I can't imagine the government making any radical changes, but public information spending would help rather than some of waste of money thats going on to use up financial year end budgets at the moment.

Back on topic, its a sad daily occurance, and your heart has to go out to anyone who loses a family member or friend under the wheels of a vehicle.

[goatwarden]

Pur pedancy, and only because it is a chance to question The Sun, surely he was an "Afganistan hero"? He doesn't look like he is a native Afgan.

I regularly ride between Bristol and Basingstoke and so go across parts of Salisbury Plain. The roads have suffered badly this winter and there are plenty of holes which road wheels dictate riding around. I have often thought when doing this that most drivers give no consideration to the possibility that a cyclist might need to avoid an obstacle not obvious to them. I often reherse the discussion with the outraged driver in my head, whereby I ask them what they would do if there was suddenly a foot deep hole in front of their car. Sadly I suspect I would never have the opportunity for this discussion as the story here suggets.

[hubgearfreak]

" if they lose a door, its their fault mentaility", not thinking that a person may be attached to the opening door.

i can see this. better that someone who's in the habit of opening a door without looking (when they MUST) does so infront of a car/van and learns their lesson, rather than killing or seriously injuring a cyclist

[stoobs]

I do feel that issues like this could be dealt with in part, too, by greater emphasis in the theory part of the Driving Test. It only requires the inclusion of the odd question, and at least then it would be learnt. Of course, people forget or choose to ignore, but at least they know it from Day One. It's never been my impression that many people know what the rule on double whites is, or how to overtake vulnerable road users.

[[XAP]Bob]

The pothole makes it newsworthy, although it's hard to believe they actually write that the pothole was responsible for his death, when it would appear from their own description that he was killed by a lorry driver who piloted an HGV over him. Ah well...

Not read the article, but were they using the term pothole as a derogatory term for the driver?