Hi,
I was involved in an incident on Wednesday where a lorry driver chased me down and then punched me in the face after I "gestured" at him for nearly knocking me off my bike.
Anyway, my question is, does anyone have any experience or advice in pursuing this kind of thing? I've given a statement to the police and they said it's likely he'll admit it and it won't go to court but I'd like to do all I can to make sure this guy doesn't do something like this again.
I'm sure in my CTC welcome pack it mentioned legal assistance but I can't seem to find this on the website, maybe it's the concussion....
Punched in the face
Hi Bod. Sorry to hear of your incident 
A similar thing happened to me (about 22 years ago) except I hadn't gesticulated to the driver - he was just miffed that I had rode my bike to the front of queue at some traffic lights.
There were witnesses & one had even phoned the police at the time of the incident on his mobile phone & later gave a statement which backed up my version of the events..
I reported the attack to the police when I got home & attended A&E for a cut lip.
The police took a statement from me & from the offender & his passenger ,who both claimed I had given them 'some verbal' which I hadn't. The first thing I was aware of was a push to my upper body &, as I turned round to see what was happening, the passenger of the vehicle punching me in the face.
No further action was taken against the driver or passenger.
I don't know what you can do further to reporting to the police. Do you have any witnesses / witness statements ?
I just hope that having been cautioned & statements taken may make it less likely for the offenders to do this sort of thing again.
A similar thing happened to me (about 22 years ago) except I hadn't gesticulated to the driver - he was just miffed that I had rode my bike to the front of queue at some traffic lights.
There were witnesses & one had even phoned the police at the time of the incident on his mobile phone & later gave a statement which backed up my version of the events..
I reported the attack to the police when I got home & attended A&E for a cut lip.
The police took a statement from me & from the offender & his passenger ,who both claimed I had given them 'some verbal' which I hadn't. The first thing I was aware of was a push to my upper body &, as I turned round to see what was happening, the passenger of the vehicle punching me in the face.
No further action was taken against the driver or passenger.
I don't know what you can do further to reporting to the police. Do you have any witnesses / witness statements ?
I just hope that having been cautioned & statements taken may make it less likely for the offenders to do this sort of thing again.
It shows how road rage feeds on itself. You made an abusive gesture and got punched for doing it. Fair dos I'd say.
Perhaps police involvement might make the driver think twice before doing this again and hopefully the incident will make you do the same before making insulting gestures at other road users.
Perhaps police involvement might make the driver think twice before doing this again and hopefully the incident will make you do the same before making insulting gestures at other road users.
pete75 wrote:It shows how road rage feeds on itself. You made an abusive gesture and got punched for doing it. Fair dos I'd say.
Perhaps police involvement might make the driver think twice before doing this again and hopefully the incident will make you do the same before making insulting gestures at other road users.
Since when did a rude gesture (no matter how offensive) justify assault?
After he punched you in the face, you should have knived him. Fair dos, I'd say!
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36781
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
bod
Two aspects to this - the criminal and the civil.
Criminal = prosecution (or alternatives such as police caution) leading to punishment on conviction. Ie this is police, Crown Prosecution Service etc. If there is a conviction and things are straightforward (i.e. no suggestion of problems with injuries dragging on for years) criminal courts can order that compensation be paid to a victim. This tends to be rather more rough and ready than civil action, but saves a lot of hassle if the injuries are not really serious.
Civil = suing for damages (AKA compo.) This is something which is down to the individual, but any evidence obtained by the police is relevant. A solicitor would normally undertake this type of work on a no-win, no-fee basis. If you decide to consider this, I think it's best not to delay consulting a solicitor - any decent local solicitor would be OK for an assault case. Get all your info together for the initial (usually free) consultation and they will tell you whether it is worth pursuing. Obviously, the assailant has to be identified for any action to be possible.
If you have ended up with a bust lip, black eye or similar, you might feel that a civil case is a big undertaking, especially as compo is only any good to you if your assailant has the £££ to pay.
In certain cases it is possible to get a payment from the Criminal Injuries Compensation scheme, or whatever they are now called. The scheme was altered a few years ago to concentrate the £££ on more serious cases and they are particularly reluctant to compensate people who may have been partly the author of their own misfortune.
Part of the problem is that insulting behaviour is itself a criminal offence (because it sometimes leads to people with bad tempers thumping people) and 'The Law' in all its guises, is keen to prevent offences being committed.
Something similar did happen to me in the early 1960's. My assailant - who knocked me off my bike then repeatedly kicked me in the face - claimed that I had raised two fingers to him. Fortunately, the reporting officer had anticipated an allegation of provocation and had noted that I was wearing thick sheepskin mittens. He was prosecuted, pleady guilty without my attendance as a witness and I never found out the result, although a lot has changed in the last half century.
Two aspects to this - the criminal and the civil.
Criminal = prosecution (or alternatives such as police caution) leading to punishment on conviction. Ie this is police, Crown Prosecution Service etc. If there is a conviction and things are straightforward (i.e. no suggestion of problems with injuries dragging on for years) criminal courts can order that compensation be paid to a victim. This tends to be rather more rough and ready than civil action, but saves a lot of hassle if the injuries are not really serious.
Civil = suing for damages (AKA compo.) This is something which is down to the individual, but any evidence obtained by the police is relevant. A solicitor would normally undertake this type of work on a no-win, no-fee basis. If you decide to consider this, I think it's best not to delay consulting a solicitor - any decent local solicitor would be OK for an assault case. Get all your info together for the initial (usually free) consultation and they will tell you whether it is worth pursuing. Obviously, the assailant has to be identified for any action to be possible.
If you have ended up with a bust lip, black eye or similar, you might feel that a civil case is a big undertaking, especially as compo is only any good to you if your assailant has the £££ to pay.
In certain cases it is possible to get a payment from the Criminal Injuries Compensation scheme, or whatever they are now called. The scheme was altered a few years ago to concentrate the £££ on more serious cases and they are particularly reluctant to compensate people who may have been partly the author of their own misfortune.
Part of the problem is that insulting behaviour is itself a criminal offence (because it sometimes leads to people with bad tempers thumping people) and 'The Law' in all its guises, is keen to prevent offences being committed.
Something similar did happen to me in the early 1960's. My assailant - who knocked me off my bike then repeatedly kicked me in the face - claimed that I had raised two fingers to him. Fortunately, the reporting officer had anticipated an allegation of provocation and had noted that I was wearing thick sheepskin mittens. He was prosecuted, pleady guilty without my attendance as a witness and I never found out the result, although a lot has changed in the last half century.
Last edited by thirdcrank on 20 Feb 2009, 10:23am, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Hemipode,
Thanks for replying. Luckily (?) a colleague saw him try to run me over and everything that happened after that; it was him that got the guy off me. Doesn't sound like that helped too much in your case though which is a real shame.
Having said that it seems to me that the police take cycling more seriously these days, I was knocked over by a hit and run Christian, it went to court and the police were very helpful through out.
Thanks for replying. Luckily (?) a colleague saw him try to run me over and everything that happened after that; it was him that got the guy off me. Doesn't sound like that helped too much in your case though which is a real shame.
Having said that it seems to me that the police take cycling more seriously these days, I was knocked over by a hit and run Christian, it went to court and the police were very helpful through out.
OK, I know the gesture wasn't the best thing to do but I'm sure we all get sick and tired of being almost run down and the simplest way to vent frustration is through gestures; there was no other effective way to let the driver know he'd nearly run me over. Having said that I don't deny in any way my actions escalated the situation. However, Pete's comment about giving someone a gesture justifies being chased down and punched in the face seems ridiculous.
Anyway, thanks very much Thirdcrank for the insightful info, this is just what I was looking to know. I'm not sure about taking the civil course of action, if only I could make sure he got some points on his licence and he attended an anger management course I'd be happy he'd not do this to anyone else.
Thanks for everyone's feedback though, it's much appreciated!
Anyway, thanks very much Thirdcrank for the insightful info, this is just what I was looking to know. I'm not sure about taking the civil course of action, if only I could make sure he got some points on his licence and he attended an anger management course I'd be happy he'd not do this to anyone else.
Thanks for everyone's feedback though, it's much appreciated!
I had a bus intentionally swerve at me in Reading once (passengers at the back all turned round, so they felt it), me ending up sprawled on the pavement. It was just a case of cycling to the front of the lights that annoyed him, had no verbal or eye contact with the driver before. Maybe another cyclist had done something silly just before I came a long, I dunno.
I wrote a letter to the bus company, with the details. Had a letter back saying the driver had been disciplined and it had been recorded.
You could find the owner of the truck company, and send a letter (hand written, in clear writing) explaining what happened. I doubt you'll get much sympathy for your jaw, but highlighting the owners potential problems if his drivers get involved with the police may yield results. You never know, this might not be the first time.
I used my work address, rather than have the prospect of an angry bus driver driving through the front of the house.
I wrote a letter to the bus company, with the details. Had a letter back saying the driver had been disciplined and it had been recorded.
You could find the owner of the truck company, and send a letter (hand written, in clear writing) explaining what happened. I doubt you'll get much sympathy for your jaw, but highlighting the owners potential problems if his drivers get involved with the police may yield results. You never know, this might not be the first time.
I used my work address, rather than have the prospect of an angry bus driver driving through the front of the house.
Gestures are a cultural thing. In some Med countries it's practically obligatory, over here it's tantamount to a threat. Some neanderthal hauling his wagon round on basic wage taking it all out on 'easy' pickings. 9 times out of 10 he'll have instituted the event precisely so he could punch somebody's face.
Personally I don't gesture because it's generally a well planned invitation not an impromptu occurance.
The driver's an idiot who deserved everything coming his way.
Personally I don't gesture because it's generally a well planned invitation not an impromptu occurance.
The driver's an idiot who deserved everything coming his way.
I didn't say it justified it but it certainly caused it to happen.
You were also commiting a public order offence btw - using threatening or abusive words or bevaviour is an offence. If the driver is prosecuted he'll doubtless see a solicitor who would probably insist that you're prosecuted as well.
You were also commiting a public order offence btw - using threatening or abusive words or bevaviour is an offence. If the driver is prosecuted he'll doubtless see a solicitor who would probably insist that you're prosecuted as well.
Re: Punched in the face
bod wrote:Hi,
I was involved in an incident on Wednesday where a lorry driver chased me down and then punched me in the face after I "gestured" at him for nearly knocking me off my bike.
Anyway, my question is, does anyone have any experience or advice in pursuing this kind of thing? I've given a statement to the police and they said it's likely he'll admit it and it won't go to court but I'd like to do all I can to make sure this guy doesn't do something like this again.
I'm sure in my CTC welcome pack it mentioned legal assistance but I can't seem to find this on the website, maybe it's the concussion....
Hello,
I don't suppose the gesture helped really-did it?
Try to avoid gestures to motorists or indeed anyone. You give off a bad image for a cyclist. You may have just got what you desrved/
John.
No offence intended of course............
pete75 wrote:I didn't say it justified it but it certainly caused it to happen.
You were also commiting a public order offence btw - using threatening or abusive words or bevaviour is an offence. If the driver is prosecuted he'll doubtless see a solicitor who would probably insist that you're prosecuted as well.
Punches in the face are easy to prove, gestures not so.
Given you can be run off the road and the police generally do nothing, I'd be a bit miffed in circumstances such as these if they even bothered issuing a warning.
You may have just got what you desrved
So, driver uses to truck to almost cause physical harm.
Cyclist makes a gesture.
Truck driver then does do actual physical harm.
..and the cyclist 'got what he deserved'. Got to love the sympathy of the forum there haven't you?
If we are following this line of thinking then perhaps a few of the forum users also deserve a punch in the face for some of the comments that they have made?
No, sorry, unlike you John & Pete I believe that physical violence can only be justified as as a last resort and as self defence. Whether the cyclist was right or not to make a gesture it simply does not merit what he received back in a society that supposedly views itself as civilised.