Court Summons - Speeding on bike!

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gradru

Court Summons - Speeding on bike!

Post by gradru »

Hi there. In March I was clocked, and stopped, by a policeman in Richmond Park at the bottom of a hill in a tailwind. He duly showed me the laser gun readout which was significantly over the park speed limit - so in that respect I'm guilty as charged.

However I have just received a court summons for October stating that I was "driving a motor vehicle, namely bicycle Pedal Cycle" and asking for my driving license etc.

What's the usual procedure for cyclists caught speeding and how can I validate that they're charging me for the right offence?
kwackers
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Post by kwackers »

You don't wanna post that here mate! You're going to be strung up.

Do you know how many people die as a result of people speeding each year? Almost a gazillion!

Just 1mph over the speed limit increases the chance of a small child dying somewhere in Britain by 100%

Speed limits are there for a reason, the moment you exceed it life becomes immeasurably dangerous. Perhaps next time you should think on this before brazenly breaking the law on your bicycle motor pedal wotsit.

Hope you're ashamed :wink:

(P.S. Nope sorry - but I believe there are some helpful people on here that will look favourably on your misdemeanour's and provide the necessary information).


P.P.S. 1st post? Speeding on a bike? Wouldn't by any chance be an old hand who's so embarrassed they've registered a new name to hide their shame? :D
Last edited by kwackers on 20 Jul 2008, 5:06pm, edited 2 times in total.
gradru

Post by gradru »

Just to clarify - I was on a push bike!
aesmith
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Re: Court Summons - Speeding on bike!

Post by aesmith »

gradru wrote:However I have just received a court summons for October stating that I was "driving a motor vehicle, namely bicycle Pedal Cycle" and asking for my driving license etc.

Tell them you don't have a driving license!
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Phil_Lee
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Re: Court Summons - Speeding on bike!

Post by Phil_Lee »

gradru wrote:Hi there. In March I was clocked, and stopped, by a policeman in Richmond Park at the bottom of a hill in a tailwind. He duly showed me the laser gun readout which was significantly over the park speed limit - so in that respect I'm guilty as charged.

However I have just received a court summons for October stating that I was "driving a motor vehicle, namely bicycle Pedal Cycle" and asking for my driving license etc.

What's the usual procedure for cyclists caught speeding and how can I validate that they're charging me for the right offence?


That would be a plea of "not guilty", since you can only plead to the charges placed before the court (and they can't make up additional/replacement ones as they go along).

Since you clearly aren't guilty of what you are charged with (although you may be guilty of something else), it looks like it's their mistake.

IIRC, they can't demand your licence be produced for offences on a bike, unless (for some obscure reason) you had it with you at the time of the offence and they can prove that (so if you didn't have to produce it then, you're ok).

Best to check with a solicitor though, and I think CTC service should cover this.
diapason
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Post by diapason »

My understanding is that, as a bicyle is not a motorised vehicle, it does not need a speedometer and you cannot be charged with speeding. You can, though, be charged with 'reckless cycling'. Ask the CTC legal department for free advice, and, if required, legal representation.

N
Advena ego sum in Terra
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Si
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Post by Si »

I'm in agreement with diapersn re normal public roads, however, after reading another thread about Clapham commonon ACF, it appears that this could be a very specific localised by-law aimed at bikes.
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Phil_Lee
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Post by Phil_Lee »

Si wrote:I'm in agreement with diapersn re normal public roads, however, after reading another thread about Clapham commonon ACF, it appears that this could be a very specific localised by-law aimed at bikes.


But the wording of the summons would be in respect of that local bylaw - not the summons referring to "driving a motor vehicle" which was actually sent.
Karen Sutton
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Post by Karen Sutton »

I was under the impression that you could not be charged with speeding on a bike unless you have a computer on the bike which would allow you to be aware of your speed.
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Phil_Lee
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Post by Phil_Lee »

Karen Sutton wrote:I was under the impression that you could not be charged with speeding on a bike unless you have a computer on the bike which would allow you to be aware of your speed.


I think that may be something of a red herring, as in order to do that, they'd also need to show that the speedometer is actually accurate, and that you knew it to be - virtually unprovable unless it's a gps device (and difficult even then).

I think it's entirely possible that some people have been persuaded to accept the points/fine without contesting it, based on what seems to be a somewhat dubious interpretation of the law.
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Si
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Post by Si »

Phil_Lee wrote:
Si wrote:I'm in agreement with diapersn re normal public roads, however, after reading another thread about Clapham commonon ACF, it appears that this could be a very specific localised by-law aimed at bikes.


But the wording of the summons would be in respect of that local bylaw - not the summons referring to "driving a motor vehicle" which was actually sent.


Quite, I was just commenting upon whether or not it was possible to 'speed' on a bike.
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Cunobelin
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Post by Cunobelin »

diapason wrote:My understanding is that, as a bicyle is not a motorised vehicle, it does not need a speedometer and you cannot be charged with speeding. You can, though, be charged with 'reckless cycling'. Ask the CTC legal department for free advice, and, if required, legal representation.

N


Bad news I am afraid...

In Bournemouth they have an enforced speed limit on the Promenade. They issue tickets because it is under a bye-law, and therefore enforceable.

If Richmond Park has speeds set under local lbye-law then it is going to stand up in court

However you could use the following....

Trawl the local newspaper obituary column for a dead person and then claim they were riding your bike........the Police are less likely to prosecute in case they upset the family

Get an elderly relative to claim they were driving and take the rap

Pay a student to take the rap

All of these have been suggested as acceptable for "otherwise law abiding" drivers if you are done for speeding in a car!

I am afraid that unlike the Kwackers mythical 1 mph over the limit a "significant margin" is a fair cop - bite the bullet
thirdcrank
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Post by thirdcrank »

gradru

Speeding as it's normally thought of only applies to motor vehicles. You cannot be prosecuted for common or garden speeding on a pedal cycle, with or without a speedo.

If the park in question has bye-laws then they may cover anything. The summons must include the legislation under which it is issued. If it refers to park bye-laws you are probably guilty as charged. If not, you have probably been reported by somebody who did not know what they were doing.

If that is the case, the matter will almost inevitably be corrected at court since the court's legal advisor (formerly the magistrates' clerk) will know that you cannot be guilty - in much the same way that you cannot be guilty of cycling without insurance, etc., and a motorist cannot be convicted of driving without pedal reflectors.

The correction may involve an application to prefer a different charge - by October this will be 'statute barred' so that may not be open to the prosecution. The conventional way to deal with this would be to plead 'NOT GUILTY'. Let the prosecution present their case and then submit that there is 'NO CASE TO ANSWER.' Simply point out that you have been summoned for driving a motor vehicle when you were riding a bicycle. Of course, this may take some bottle. The law of England and Wales requires the prosecution to prove the offence without help from the alleged offender so there is no onus on you to sort this out.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've written the above in the same way that I would try to advise anybody. I have a sneaky suspicion that this is a wind-up.
kwackers
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Post by kwackers »

I would bite the bullet.

However, is it a public road? If not can a by-law have grounds for applying points to a license?
Even if it is and the by-law covers it - can they still apply points?

I understand that by-laws can hand out fines for 'made up' offences, but it seems slightly odd that they can cause a traffic law to suddenly apply...

Imagine if a local park created a by-law restricting ped speed to 3mph - and you got 3 points for a quick jog! If you ran past 4 policemen you could even get a ban!
Sounds suspicious to me...

In future though, do what I do. Put on a terrified face and scream as loudly as possible "NO BRAKES!". They always jump out of the way allowing you to continue on your way.
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Dean
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Post by Dean »

Is Richmond a royal park? I remember hearing from London denizens that speeding on a pushbike is an offence in royal parks, as they have specific bye-laws.
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