Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

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rmurphy195
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Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by rmurphy195 »

Why are cycle tracks so bumpy?

Compared to our Birmingham roads (potholes excepted) the cyclepaths are very bumpy - do the local authorities simply lay them as if they were footpaths? (Quite apart, that is, from the tree roots etc!)

Why so narrow?- anyone who uses the cycleways around the QE hospital in Birmingham will know what I mean, not very wide and supposedly 2-way! And bounded by some nice wide white lines that don't seem to be non-slip - exactly the sort of thing I used to avoid in wet weather on 2 wheels (with or without an engine)

And why do they end - well, nowhere? e.g. you have a cycle lane laid along a footway (shared space) - and suddenly you get a sign saying "End of Cycle Path" - with nowhere to go, not even a ramp onto the roadway! Are you simply viewed as a pedestrian who rides a bike along some of your journey?

NB I've looked at some of these with a "Drivers viewpoint" as well as a cyclists viewpoint - and come to the same conclusion, around here they are mostly useless if well-meaning!
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Vantage
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by Vantage »

Coz anyone who hasn't, doesn't or wont ride a bike and hasn't figured out what a joy they are hate cyclists, bikes and everything to do with it. Which pretty much means all the eejits running this country and the rest of the UK/world.
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mercalia
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by mercalia »

cause they are cheaply made, not up to the standard of the main road. Last summer the powers were surfacing a bit of the NCR 1 I think it is, from Dartford to Graves end. Only a small section; and they had a mini roller yet still after all the work it wasnt flat, ripples every so many yards, yes very low level but still bad enough to irritate on your bike. Dont know what they were doing wrong as there were enough workers there ( doing nothing :lol: )
Tangled Metal
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Ripples and bumps? Wish I only had those problems on my commuting route. Apart from the usual bumpy road surface there's bodged utility repairs ranging from depressions through wheel sized grooves where they meet the original surface to whole chunks just disappeared so they're now potholes. Then there's whole stretches where there's so many potholes you can't safely weave around them. Plus later on in my ride home a whole new set of potholes appeared overnight. These are on the most narrow section of main road where it bends consistently for almost a mile. With heavy vehicles going both ways, double white lines and you have to pull out last.minute or ride through 2" deep potholes.

Rant over but I've hit two potholes in the last month each gave a loud bang that I'm not completely sure didn't cause damage. I'm sure I'm not alone with.this experience but if you've got ripples and rough cycle paths apart from roads then it's at least something. My commute only has a canal as the alternative route that's off road for part of my journey. It goes all around the houses taking me half as long again as my road route, double if I try to catch it earlier in my ride home.

AFAIK councils probably have a requirement to provide at least a certain distance of cycle paths. They do not have any regulations as to the minimum standards they have to be to pass planning process. At least not the way most types of highways have standards. There's even regulations over the signage and cones needed for roadworks apparently let alone junction design, etc. To not have something similar for cycle paths is short sighted and results in poor surfaces/narrow paths, very short runs directing cyclists towards dangerous places to rejoin a carriageway and paths that's not even in a useful place. However each of these will still count as cycle paths good enough to be included in any measure of a council's performance in cycle infrastructure.

We're a nation of motorists not cyclists. Unless cycling becomes a normal part of the nation's life you will never get a critical mass to drive infrastructure spend for cycling to improve and create more.

We need the Danish or Dutch attitude to using bikes in day to day life. Until then I'm happy doing my bit 3 to 5 days per week commuting plus weekend leisure rides. We're also giving cycling experience to our young son, with the intention to make it normal to cycle places for him. Think global act local is a good phrase. I prefer think national by supporting CTC or cycle campaigns but act local or personal by getting out on my bike as part of my normal life. Lancaster, IMHO, is not a bad city to cycle in overall, it's just the road isn't maintained which is the LCC's responsibility.
dodger
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by dodger »

If you watch workers laying tarmac for cycle or footpaths, they tend to unload it from the tarmac lorry a pile at a time, then rake it flat and roller it.
This means that the point where the pile first falls is a bit denser than the rest of the raked-out part and after a little while the less dense areas subside a bit, leaving a lumpy rippled effect.
What they need is a mini version of the road tarmac machines that deposit it evenly!
I find I often end up riding on the road, even when there is a cycle path because of this. Then, of course, the 4 wheeled numpties shout that I should be on the cycle path!!
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by Tangled Metal »

There's a road I ride often that has a wide path on one side that's mixed use. I never use it these days because it weaves in and out a lot because it follows the river whereas the road is straight. When I stopped using it I learnt that it's a slower surface. It's smooth enough but compared to the newly surfaced road surface it just feels harder to ride on.
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by Vorpal »

Because they are designed and built by people who are primarily drivers, in the hopes that we will get out of the way.
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by eileithyia »

As above, not designed by cyclist who have no idea what cycling is like, we all ride ATB's that can go any surface don't we????????????
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pwa
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by pwa »

Having worked for a charity /company that organised the creation of Community Routes (we avoided the divisive tag of "cycle track" because we saw pedestrians as part of our user group) I agree with the comments of the OP. The short answer to question of why the tracks are often inadequate is MONEY, and the need to get X kilometres done for a certain level of available funds.

On a technical point, wider tracks are easier to lay smoothly than narrow tracks because on the wider tracks (typically former rail tracks) you can use the large tarmac laying machines used to lay roads. You hire the services of a road laying company for a week or so and a lovely, wide, smooth track appears out of nowhere. The narrower and more fiddly the track, the less you can use the sort of machinery that produces an even surface.
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by MikeF »

rmurphy195 wrote:And why do they end - well, nowhere? e.g. you have a cycle lane laid along a footway (shared space) - and suddenly you get a sign saying "End of Cycle Path" - with nowhere to go, not even a ramp onto the roadway! Are you simply viewed as a pedestrian who rides a bike along some of your journey?
Like this in Tonbridge High Street it just ends :evil: :? . Surface is fine though. :)
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Si
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by Si »

Tbh, I've not noticed that the paths around the QE are especially bumpy. I ride a tourer with 1.5 tyres and have no problems. I've not really noticed many coming to sudden stops and not going anywhere. They link the uni, hospital, canal (access to be improved), paths along side the busy A38, the nee Bournebrook path out to Woodgate country park, and the Mosley route to cannon hill park and the city centre.
I agree that the width can be questionable in places...this is sometimes due to having to fit them onto pavements where it was never originally even considered that bike paths may one day be required. In other places there had to be a compromise with Parks, etc.
There are some elements of very bad design..such as running through bus stops, and the spray'n'chip in places.
Overall they fall short of the N.Euro ideal but make the arts much nicer to cycle in than 20 yrs ago when I used to commute through there.
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by Vorpal »

Si wrote:Tbh, I've not noticed that the paths around the QE are especially bumpy. I ride a tourer with 1.5 tyres and have no problems. I've not really noticed many coming to sudden stops and not going anywhere. They link the uni, hospital, canal (access to be improved), paths along side the busy A38, the nee Bournebrook path out to Woodgate country park, and the Mosley route to cannon hill park and the city centre.
I agree that the width can be questionable in places...this is sometimes due to having to fit them onto pavements where it was never originally even considered that bike paths may one day be required. In other places there had to be a compromise with Parks, etc.
There are some elements of very bad design..such as running through bus stops, and the spray'n'chip in places.
Overall they fall short of the N.Euro ideal but make the arts much nicer to cycle in than 20 yrs ago when I used to commute through there.

There are some in Essex that are ridiculous. There's one on the A132 near Wickford that was so bumpy (for years; I doubt it's different now, though I haven't been there for a few years), I couldn't ride my hybrid with 700 X 42 faster than about 8 mph without shaking my teeth out. I used the road, instead, even though it is a busy, narrow A road. :twisted:
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by ambodach »

From Barcaldine ( near Oban) northwards there is a newish cycle path. There are some of the usual issues in that it diverts where you do not necessarily want to go but that apart motorists complain bitterly that it has a beautiful surface much better than any of the roads around. Why do these cyclists get preferential treatment? :lol:
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by mjr »

I suspect it's because the councils in bumpy-cycle-track areas don't contain enough cyclists, so the officers don't specify it properly (basically, machine-laid Hot Rolled Asphalt 55/10) and the councillors don't hold them to account because they're not riding the junk their council built.

In King's Lynn, we have cycle tracks like the attached photo - 9 metres wide and nearly smooth enough for marbles - but 3m and smooth is the usual. We generally only end up with lumpy stuff where it's a Highways England road (who also seem to use 1.2m width as standard!), it decays too far (one track is 20+ years old, has some tree root damage and has patches on patches) or where a developer builds a cycle track with their development and then the worst of the utilities (usually Anglian Water, but BT and UKPN both occasionally seem to subcontract to nutters) dug it up to provide services to the development :roll: but most of the cycle tracks are rideable at a fair old speed.

If you want to elect more cycling councillors, I think many English highways councils (mostly county?) have elections this May. Get in touch with your local cycling campaign and help ask questions of candidates.
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Re: Why are cycle paths so bumpy? And narrow?

Post by squeaker »

East Worthing sea front(NCN2). Was smooth-ish 3m wide tarmac when laid, but local council insisted on green surface for segregated cycling bit. Green surface laid by shovel - about 1 gear slower than the pedestrian side :roll:
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